Zanussi Solar

Cardew

jessand wrote: »

More info although you've worked it out yourselves! Many thanks for all your contributions.

FIT £426.97, Export £83.03, Bill savings £256.80, Total £766.80 for year 1
Inflation at 3% and fuel price increases 7% per annum.
FIT payments stop at 20yrs and bill savings carry on to yr 25, by this point bill savings are calculated at £1100pa!
EricMears - yes 3,424 kWh.

My unit rate is 10.868p (or it was in June.), Does this mean that the whole £767 should be reduced by 28% or only part of it? Last year's electricity usage was 2,467 kWh does this make the bill savings even less likely?

FIT and Export figures are correct for 2015. The nonsense in the estimate is; both inflation figures; 15p for electricity; the assumption that you can use 50% of generated electricity in-house and the 25 year forecast.


Inflation is currently around zero and has not been as high as 3% since 2011. The Bank of England's target is 2% and the economists I read think it is unlikely to reach that level for years.


Fuel price inflation at 7% is a joke.


Don't forget a few early years at below 3%/7% inflation dramatically alters the end figure.


Given your low annual consumption of 2,467kWh you will be hard pressed to use even 1,000kWh a year of your generated electricity in-house, so savings are realistically likely to be in the region of £100pa


That said, income of around £600 for an outlay of £5,200 is not bad; so I am not saying it is a bad investment. However the figures you have been given are a disgrace.

Cardew

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

£5200 spent to return a £150 quid saving on electricity?

LOL, at that rate the payback period would be over 30 years. It just goes to show what a pointless renewable small scale solar really is. No wonder the rest of us have to chip in to provide subsidies.

If the OP invested the money in an energy company (for example British Gas), you'd be getting a £100 per annum dividend payment plus share increases over a 25 year period, which for British Gas is 12 times the initial investment:

.

You have forgotten the inflation linked £510pa plus the in-house savings - around £600pa in 2015.


However you are talking around 10 years(with realistic inflation figures) before your invested income from the panels would be the same as the £5,200 stuck in a long term savings account.


You are quite correct that many shares have increased spectacularly over the years, equally there have been even greater spectacular losses; total losses in some cases.


For instance the £1,500 in shares Halifax Building society customers got when it became a bank in 1997 are now worth £38. A close relative worked for Halifax BS for years and took up every option to buy employee shares; his comfortable retirement 'fund' was wiped out overnight.

jessand

Thank you for your guidance. I can now see that £600 pa is the realistic figure to work on. I have another supplier calling tomorrow to give a quote and now have a much better grasp of the subject. I still think it's a decent investment, I sold my BG shares for a big profit within weeks of the launch. The problem is that you have to know how much the shares will increase before you buy them - not 25 years later. Hindsight eh!

Martyn1981

Hiya jessand, if you haven't already, have a quick glance over the PV FAQs, particularly sections 1 & 2. You might also like to have a play with section 5 to get an idea of potential generation.

Regarding leccy savings, you would probably be nearer the lower end, as you are a reasonably low user. My import (pre-PV) was ~3,000kWh. I save around £180pa, but have a largish split system, so get reasonable generation all day, and am on a higher unit rate than you.

Mart.

Cardew

jessand wrote: »

Thank you for your guidance. I can now see that £600 pa is the realistic figure to work on.


I still think it's a decent investment,

I often think there is a perception problem with this type of 'investment'.


People often talk of a return of xx% on their capital. In your case, with £5,200 invested and getting an initial £600 income, it would be 11.5%.


However for comparison purposes, a normal investment would still have the £5,200 capital, with PV you have nothing of immediate value, just panels on the roof.


If a major Bank or Building Society ran a scheme where you invested £5,200 with them and got that money paid back over a period of, say, 10 years - with high rewards for the next 10 years - I wonder how many would take up the scheme?

Thorbjorn

I am also looking at a quote from Zanussi Solar, i was actually pretty close to gong ahead with it - but the figures just did not seem right....

Perhaps you can also confirm my suspicion.

I am based in Kent

Quote:

2,12kWp system size (8 panels)
Estimated annual energy 2251 kWh
Year 1 earning £504 (based on a £280 fit payment, £55 export payment and a £167 saving)
Total cost for system/installation (bought outright) is £4400

for the fun factor the 25 year revenue is calculated at £19054 (which according to Zanussi Solar leaves profit of over £14600)

Here they have also used 15 p /unit for electricity, inflation at 3% and energy increase of 7% every year - for 25 years.

- I think if this was a 4kWp system these figures could financially make sense, but is there really any point in installing a 2kWp system at this price?

Cardew

Welcome to the forum.

Your quote attracts exactly the same comments as above. i.e The initial FIT and export figures are correct. Both inflation figures, 15p/kWh, in-house consumption and 25 years don't stack up.

My view on the economics of purchasing PV are as stated in Post#16. around 10 years to get back your money, and on the gravy train in 2025 for the next 10 years.

pinnks

I have been able to monitor my generation,consumption, export/import and diversion using my immerSUN since June.

I use my immerSUN for hot water (of course) and space heating once the water is hot and the weather cold.

Since June I have exported 41% (which is exceptionally low) but possible. It will be interesting to see what the annual figure pans out like but seeing as my records cover the main or highest export months I would hope to come in at something around this figure.

If you look at the chart (link to dropbox below) you'll see the relationship between the figures. Yellow is generation, orange is house consumption. Green is export and red is import. The two blues are diverted (diversion is not included in the orange data). The darker blue is hot water, while the lighter blue is space heating. Finally the line is percentage export.

Anyway, that's what my house looks like over the past 6 months.

HTH

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14870257/Performance%20chart.JPG

Oh, if anyone knows how to plot this chart so that the bars stack but all colours are visible, please let me know as I have given up trying...

Martyn1981

Thorbjorn wrote: »

I am also looking at a quote from Zanussi Solar, i was actually pretty close to gong ahead with it - but the figures just did not seem right....

Perhaps you can also confirm my suspicion.

I am based in Kent

Quote:

2,12kWp system size (8 panels)
Estimated annual energy 2251 kWh
Year 1 earning £504 (based on a £280 fit payment, £55 export payment and a £167 saving)
Total cost for system/installation (bought outright) is £4400

for the fun factor the 25 year revenue is calculated at £19054 (which according to Zanussi Solar leaves profit of over £14600)

Here they have also used 15 p /unit for electricity, inflation at 3% and energy increase of 7% every year - for 25 years.

- I think if this was a 4kWp system these figures could financially make sense, but is there really any point in installing a 2kWp system at this price?

Hiya Thor, and welcome.

Check your generation on PVGIS (see previous posts), but random pin in Kent, suggests around 2,100.

Price is too high. I had a 2kWp system with black panels and SolarEdge system installed for £4,150 back in July 2012. You should be aiming for around £3k.

FiT and export ok, but expect lower leccy savings. Savings aren't proportional to system size, you'd probably use everything from a 1 panel system, but less and less as the system gets bigger, but I'd still suggest a figure nearer to £100.

Returns are probably ok, if you get a better price, but why so small? Is that all the roof space available, can you consider any other rooves?

Mart.

Cardew

Martyn1981 wrote: »

can you consider any other rooves?

Mart.

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but surely the plural of 'roof' is 'roofs'? A quick 'google' seems to confirm roofs is correct;)