Zanussi Solar

jessand

Hi Everyone. I've been quoted by Zanussi for a PV system 3.7kWp at £5200. The figures look impressive with a payback of around 8 years. I'm finding it difficult to find any feedback on Zanussi Solar (which I chose because it is a brand i use for domestic appliances) and hope someone on here may be able to help.

Can anyone share their experience of buying from this company or recommend others in my area, Coventry? Many thanks.

Cardew

Welcome to the forum.


Is the £5,200 financed through the Barclays loan they offer, or a cash deal. If a loan, what is the interest rate?


Can you post the 'impressive figures' that give payback in 8 years please.

jessand

Hi Cardew

Cash purchase

Est.annual energy 3.424kWh
Yr1 earnings £767
25YR £28,983
Elevation no 1: 163 deg
100% unshaded

Payback is 6 years according to their estimated earnings - not 8 my arithmetic was a bit out!
20tr inverter guarantee
All warranties insurance backed.

Look forward to your views.

Cardew

Did they give a breakdown of the £767 and £28,983 after 25 years figures?


I haven't followed closely the FIT scheme lately and I am sure others will jump in if I am wrong with my figures; however as I calculate the FIT and export payments for a system installed this month you will get back £510pa.


That presumably assumes you will save £257pa on in-house electricity. I think you will find from the many contributors in this section that figure is unrealistic - £100 to £150 is more likely.


I wonder why they have calculated savings over 25 years when you get FIT for 20 years?


Anyway to achieve savings of £28,983 they have assumed a high(unrealistic?) inflation rate even on an unrealistic initial figure of £767pa.


IMO the definition of 'payback' is debatable. Your £5,200 could be invested in a long term savings plan at ??% and after 25 years could double.

EricMears

Cardew wrote: »

IMO the definition of 'payback' is debatable. Your £5,200 could be invested in a long term savings plan at ??% and after 25 years could double.

At current rates (2% if you're lucky !) £5200 becomes £8500 in 25 years. You'd need around 3% for it to double - although I'm sure (well I hope ) interest rates will get back to worthwhile investment rates long before that.

As for quoting returns for 25 years rather than 20 : I expect that was an 'accident' (though a very convenient one for unscrupulous quoters ! ) They've obviously included an allowance for inflation but we don't seem to have been told how much.

I agree with Cardew's £510 as the rate (FIT + deemed export) for new installs this month if annual output really is 3,424kWh (but who can say if they got that right or had another 'accidental' miscalc) and also that saving £257 on an annual electricity bill would take a lot of doing.

NB I hope the estimate was 3,424kWh rather than

jessand wrote: »

Est.annual energy 3.424kWh

Cardew

EricMears wrote: »

As for quoting returns for 25 years rather than 20 : I expect that was an 'accident' (though a very convenient one for unscrupulous quoters ! ) They've obviously included an allowance for inflation but we don't seem to have been told how much.

Without knowing the inflation rate they have used, it is difficult to comment about their 'accident'; however I suspect that they have used the index linked FIT and export tariff for years 20 to 25.


NB. OP when the FIT scheme was first introduced payments were for 25 years but came down to 20 years some years ago.


OP. I suggest you get a breakdown of those 'impressive figures'.


1. How do they get an initial £767?


2. Inflation rates assumed for FIT and Electricity prices


3. Why 25 years for Total savings?


4. Have they used inflation linked FIT for year 20 to year 25


5. 3,424kWh pa is excellent from a 3.7kWp system in Coventry. Given the 'optimistic' figures elsewhere in the quote, I also suggest you get the detail of that estimated output. - I am not saying it is wrong, just 'excellent'!

Martyn1981

jessand wrote: »

Hi Cardew

Cash purchase

Est.annual energy 3.424kWh
Yr1 earnings £767
25YR £28,983
Elevation no 1: 163 deg
100% unshaded

Payback is 6 years according to their estimated earnings - not 8 my arithmetic was a bit out!
20tr inverter guarantee
All warranties insurance backed.

Look forward to your views.

Hiya jessand and welcome. £5.2k doesn't sound bad for 3.7kWp.

Generation looks normal for Coventry, -17d from south. PVGIS suggested 3,470, but will depend on exact location of your house.

Looks like £257 for leccy savings, which at 15p/kWh is 'coincidentally' 50% of 3,424. As others have said, that's a very high figure, expect lower. To get very high savings like that usually means very high consumption and the opportunity to use leccy during the day.

Mart.

Cardew

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Looks like £257 for leccy savings, which at 15p/kWh is 'coincidentally' 50% of 3,424. As others have said, that's a very high figure, expect lower. To get very high savings like that usually means very high consumption and the opportunity to use leccy during the day.

Mart.

OP,


Not only is it difficult to use 50% of your generated output, but the use of 15p/kWh in the estimate is a nonsense.


Electricity prices for the Coventry area are as low as 9.734p/kWh including VAT(SSE) with loads of tariffs under 11p/kWh


They often get to this figure by taking an expensive tariff and add an element for the daily standard charge - which you would pay anyway.

MFW_ASAP

Cardew wrote: »

That presumably assumes you will save £257pa on in-house electricity. I think you will find from the many contributors in this section that figure is unrealistic - £100 to £150 is more likely.

£5200 spent to return a £150 quid saving on electricity?

LOL, at that rate the payback period would be over 30 years. It just goes to show what a pointless renewable small scale solar really is. No wonder the rest of us have to chip in to provide subsidies.

If the OP invested the money in an energy company (for example British Gas), you'd be getting a £100 per annum dividend payment plus share increases over a 25 year period, which for British Gas is 12 times the initial investment:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2061083/British-Gas-shares-increased-12-times-25-years-privatisation.html

Remember that you also get back the £5200 original investment.

So 5200 invested 25 years ago in BG would net you over £64,000, plus the £5200 you have already spent.

With solar, you get obsolete equipment after 25 years and so you leave with... nothing.

jessand

More info although you've worked it out yourselves! Many thanks for all your contributions.

FIT £426.97, Export £83.03, Bill savings £256.80, Total £766.80 for year 1
Inflation at 3% and fuel price increases 7% per annum.
FIT payments stop at 20yrs and bill savings carry on to yr 25, by this point bill savings are calculated at £1100pa!
EricMears - yes 3,424 kWh.

My unit rate is 10.868p (or it was in June.), Does this mean that the whole £767 should be reduced by 28% or only part of it? Last year's electricity usage was 2,467 kWh does this make the bill savings even less likely?

EricMears

jessand wrote: »

More info although you've worked it out yourselves! Many thanks for all your contributions.

FIT £426.97, Export £83.03, Bill savings £256.80, Total £766.80 for year 1
Inflation at 3% and fuel price increases 7% per annum.
FIT payments stop at 20yrs and bill savings carry on to yr 25, by this point bill savings are calculated at £1100pa!
EricMears - yes 3,424 kWh.

My unit rate is 10.868p (or it was in June.), Does this mean that the whole £767 should be reduced by 28% or only part of it? Last year's electricity usage was 2,467 kWh does this make the bill savings even less likely?

Why stop at 25y - think what a fantastic saving they'd have been able to predict for 2115

Whilst in the short term inflation rates for cost of living and fuel prices might be different, it's a somewhat unlikely scenario that one such index could be more than double another in the long term.

And YES - you should certainly recalculate savings on your bill by using your own electricity rates (unless of course you're thinking of switching to a supplier who wants to charge you 15ppu ? ).

Their figures for FIT plus export payments (totalling £510) in year 1 are probably fairly accurate. Electricity 'savings' are dubious to say the least (some might go as far as calling them fraudulent).

Pretty pointless trying to use any forecasts for inflation - even our Treasury Department would have to admit that they're only using a 'best guess'. You can get a good idea of return in Year One; anything further in future is a waste of effort.

If you'd had a similar quote a year ago, they'd probably have been predicting a 7% electricity price rise by now; in fact most people have reported a price drop over the year. It would be somewhat optimistic to predict 20 years of falling electricity prices but that's at least a valid a forecast as theirs !

But do produce your own figures before rejecting solar power out of hand. There are other suppliers who might quote less and if you can get an accurate forecast of returns you might consider such an investment worthwhile.