Tower Road Newquay - ParkingEye/POPLA

josingh20

Hi Coupon/anyone else reading:

I just re read something in their statement before referring to the Bevis case. What do you think this means? Is it true?

"With regards to the amount of the charge, a pre-estimate of loss is no longer a requirement by the BPA Code of Practice. Further this charge must be proportionate and commercially justifiable. Which it is. We would not expect this amount to be more than £100, which we can confirm we have not exceeded as the Parking Charge at this site is £100.00."

Coupon-mad

Yes that's true of the Beavis case, in that SPECIFIC situation of a free licence to park for 2 hours in Chelmsford Retail Park, in a very unusual (some people might say deluded...) decision going against consumer law and case law, it was considered that the time after that could be charged at £85 and need not be based upon the loss/damages.

But (arguably, and we do argue this) that's not the same as your situation here, in a P&D car park where the tangible loss should in all good faith and fairness (issues covered by the Consumer Rights Act) clearly only be quantified, based upon an unpaid small tariff and ONLY if the car was actually parked for more than paid-for time.

In very basic terms, consumer contracts like this, start out from the simple premise that any charge for breach must be based on a GPEOL.

BUT not if (like in Beavis) the trader/operator can show that there is commercial justification - in the case in hand, based upon these facts - for the charge NOT to have to be pegged to a sum relating only to damages. In Beavis much was made of the free licence for two hours. That offer was considered to have significant value, the costs for which were believed to be offset, if you like, by the £85 charged to overstayers. And the Judges decided on those facts, that the penalty 'rule' (that would normally make such a high charge unenforceable) was disengaged.

Not the same here. But your job is to argue that to POPLA!

In my view, PE can't just say 'ner ner ner...look, we won v Beavis; ner ner ner... £100 is the ceiling in the BPA CoP therefore the charge here is comercially justified to be a hundred times the potential, actual loss/tariff'. But they are saying that, so you need to explain how that is flawed logic and how this situation is indeed just a simple consumer contract with a tangible tariff/loss (which is denied anyway), nothing like the Beavis case and indeed unfair under the Consumer Rights Act (was the parking event after October 1st?).

josingh20

In truth, I am actually attempting to fight 2x parking charges, from the same day.

One is this one as discussed at Tower Road (where I have P&D'd for my ticket) and one was a free car park at Asda, where there was 2 hrs free.

The one at Tower Road was ParkingEye and the one at Asda was Smart Parking. I have applied the same principles to my rebuttal of the Smart Parking as that is a case of having overstayed by 3 mins over my grace period of 15 mins in a free car park and they want to levy a charge of £70...I am trying to argue this is different to Bevis and still doesnt constitute a GPEOL.

Coupon-mad

The Asda one is easier. I hope you didn't put 'my grace period' because the reason the Smart one is easier is because they don't use POFA version NTKs, so a keeper can argue that they are not liable and cite the POFA in much more detail than in a PE case, where the NTKs are not perfect but PE do attempt POFA wording.

josingh20

hi coupon,

Was gonna send you a PM but I look to be blocked? Thanks for all your help again!

Yes, I didnt write it quite like, I just made reference to the grace period as Smart Parking pointed out.

Unfortunately I don't think I can defend against any NtK or NtD as it is a company car and work have already passed my details on.

I'll keep you update do any progress.

PS - The POPLA comments/rebuttal section only has space for 2000 characters, so my carefully worded and constructed offline rebuttal was truncated! I have sent a copy of the full appeal rebuttal to info@popla.co.uk

Coupon-mad

I don't take pm's, too busy sorry! I only have about six 'friends' allowed to pm me - it's not personal, honest.

Your workplace passing your details on is NOT telling the PPC who was driving!! You are the day to day keeper/lessee of the vehicle and can certainly use the POFA in both, unless you've said who was driving or implied it already.

Re the 2000 characters, we know that and you should not have even tried. Email is best. Are you saying you haven't bothered with the POFA argument at all, for either of them?

Oh dear.

josingh20

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Your workplace passing your details on is NOT telling the PPC who was driving!! You are the day to day keeper/lessee of the vehicle and can certainly use the POFA in both, unless you've said who was driving or implied it already.

Are you saying you haven't bothered with the POFA argument at all, for either of them?

Oh dear.

erm...?:embarasse:embarasse:shocked::exclamati whoops, and maybe? arrr. After reading all the various newbie threads it just looked like it didn't apply to me.

Meh, whats done is done now. I can't take it back. But thanks again. Fingers crossed the other arguments stack up.

Ralph-y

did you ever follow up the Asda ticket with a trip to see the manager ?

that will be the quickest / easiest way to sort that one .....

Oh and don't fall for the stock Asda reply ' we dont own the car park .... its not us'

Good luck

Ralph:cool:

josingh20

Ralph-y wrote: »

did you ever follow up the Asda ticket with a trip to see the manager ?

that will be the quickest / easiest way to sort that one .....

Oh and don't fall for the stock Asda reply ' we dont own the car park .... its not us'

Good luck

Ralph:cool:

Hi Ralph, thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I was visiting Cornwall for the day so can't really get in touch unless I call them. Would it be worth doing that?

beamerguy

josingh20 wrote: »

Hi Ralph, thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I was visiting Cornwall for the day so can't really get in touch unless I call them. Would it be worth doing that?

HERE IS YOUR ANSWER

ASDA UK

Mr Andy Clarke Chief Executive

Email andy.clarke@asda.co.uk