Filling in old unused socket holes (with wiring)

drg0nz0

Hello,

I'm renovating a 60s-era flat. The electrical wiring is in conduits embedded inside the walls and ceiling, as well as some in surface-run plastic conduits (creating extra power outlets). One room has 2 unused socket holes. They were covered with plastic plates. One is eye level, the other just above skirting board. The wiring is still inside and cannot be removed/pulled out as it's in the conduit inside the wall. I'm not sure what they would have been for. There's already one light switch by the door, and 2 lots of power sockets. Also, I'm no electrician but find it odd that there's no stripy earth wire in these sockets (all other light switches and power sockets have it).

I'm going to wallpaper the wall that has these 2 old sockets and don't want any ugly covering plates showing. I don't see any use in these sockets, they look like they've been out of action for decades. But did want to ask if anyone has come across such disused sockets. Can I just go ahead and block them up (without bothering to pay an electrician to do something)? And if yes, what would be the best way to do it, to retain some possibility of unblocking later fairly easily if needed?

Thanks!

TheCyclingProgrammer

The wiring is ancient, probably been there since when the house was built. Has the wiring in the rest of the house been upgraded? If so, then the old wiring is unlikely to still be in use but I would get an electrician to check before you block it up.

If the rest of the electrics are is old and you're renovating then surely you must be considering a rewire?

Alias_Omega

I would hammer/screwdriver the metal lugs into the box, cut a nice piece of cardboard (circular) and insert into the conduit box and fill...

If you wanted to be 100% sure about them cables, you could turn off the Consumer Unit (Fuse Board) and cover the ends in Electrical Tape... (put a piece over the end, fold it over..then wrap it around down the cable..)

drg0nz0

I'm definitely not going to do a rewire! As I mentioned, a lot of the wiring is in ducts embedded in concrete ceiling and thermalite walls. An electrician we had come over once already said it would be expensive because the wiring has to be pushed through these tiny tubes, it's not just easily accessible in the plasterboard wall/ceiling cavity. It still works fine and all the other flats have the same wiring. We'll probably need a new fuse box and to have the kitchen put on a "ring" of its own (when we do the kitchen), to comply with current regulations, but the guy said not to touch the rest of the wiring if it "ain't broke".

TheCyclingProgrammer

I'd get a second opinion on that. Seems like a wasted opportunity to renovate a house and leave such ancient wiring in place.

Do any of the sockets and lights have an earth wire? If there isn't and the wiring is really old, then you may find electricians unwilling to do things like upgrade the consumer unit if they don't think the existing wiring is safe (they will need to do a risk assessment):

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100126675/Best-Practice-Guide-1.pdf

Like I said, I'd at least get a second opinion. Old wiring has a finite lifespan and may be on its last legs if it dates from when the place was built. Yes, it won't be cheap but didn't you realise how old the wiring was when you bought it and there was a strong possibility it would need a rewire?

drg0nz0

There doesn't have to be anything wrong with the wiring just because it's quite old. It's PVC coated, I've lived here 3 years with no problems. I'll have the fuse board replaced, and all sockets and switches. You don't think all the UK's council housing 1950s onwards has been rewired?

arbrighton

Actually, with decent homes initiative etc, I would probably expect rewiring to have been done in a lot of council houses. RTB obviously a different kettle of fish

brightontraveller

Alias_Omega wrote: »

I would hammer/screwdriver the metal lugs into the box, cut a nice piece of cardboard (circular) and insert into the conduit box and fill...

If you wanted to be 100% sure about them cables, you could turn off the Consumer Unit (Fuse Board) and cover the ends in Electrical Tape... (put a piece over the end, fold it over..then wrap it around down the cable..)

Use cardboard it’s a fire risk ? Hammer in lugs???? I ‘d imagine your tool kit comprises of hammer and phone the hammer as your choice of primary tool the latter to call out tradesmen , emergency services etc when you’ve finished using you primary tool? Tape is bodge territory sweats, degrades etc only 100% way is to remove the cable


The earth system might well be metal conduit itself? If cables still live then your meant to be able to access them so you wouldn’t cover them with anything other than a lid etc. Regs are all joins etc to be easy accessible ?

If you don’t want to see them some would use (for round conduit boxes) Rubber Gasket and metal/ plastic conduit lids, For the square a flat PVC/metal 1/2 Gang Blanking Plate (floor type and some of the trunking ones are only mm thick) which allows them to be flush with surface and paper over (yours look set far enough back that lid could be made flush with existing surface filling around edgesetc ) Measure distance from corner of room to centre of box and from floor level starting in same corner in every room for future reference, Some would put lid screws through paper easy enough and hardly noticeable for future reference

How hard it would be to rewire using existing conduit really depends on condition of conduit and its original installation method ?If conditions good and installed correctly then easy as pie you ‘d use the existing cable as draw wire to pull in new or fish tape , rods etc
The “if it isn’t broke don’t fix it” approach goes with “if its not covered over then don’t” ????

zax47

Ok, so no-one seems to have yet confirmed that these wires are all dead?

Top pic, I really hope they are; bottom pic - anyones' guess.

If they definitely are old, dead & unused then I can see no problem in cutting some plasterboard to suit and filling /plastering over (not cardboard!). If not dead then you've more problems, cables need making safe PROPERLY, albeit the conduit offers mechanical protection for the embedded cables negating the need for "safe zone" running.

You say there are also surface mounted trunking/cables/sockets/switches. Might it have had a re-wire in the past and they've surface mounted everything, as that's so much easier/quicker than pulling new cables in through the old conduit? (though that makes them rough-arsed !!!!!!s, in my book...) Was it council/LA owned in the past? - they'd do a cheapo surface mounted re-wire job, quick & cheap.

Can we get a pic of your consumer unit ("fuse box") please?

drg0nz0

zax47 wrote: »

Ok, so no-one seems to have yet confirmed that these wires are all dead?

Top pic, I really hope they are; bottom pic - anyones' guess.

If they definitely are old, dead & unused then I can see no problem in cutting some plasterboard to suit and filling /plastering over (not cardboard!). If not dead then you've more problems, cables need making safe PROPERLY, albeit the conduit offers mechanical protection for the embedded cables negating the need for "safe zone" running.

You say there are also surface mounted trunking/cables/sockets/switches. Might it have had a re-wire in the past and they've surface mounted everything, as that's so much easier/quicker than pulling new cables in through the old conduit? (though that makes them rough-arsed !!!!!!s, in my book...) Was it council/LA owned in the past? - they'd do a cheapo surface mounted re-wire job, quick & cheap.

Can we get a pic of your consumer unit ("fuse box") please?

I've not checked yet if they're dead. Asked same Q on electrician forum and they said the test devices you get from B&Q are not good? I.e. to call a sparky to be sure.

Here's photos of the fuse box (was advised it will have to be updated). Note the super ancient original one above it! Sorry it's all upside down, Dropbox is being weird.




The flat was RTB'd in mid 80s and I doubt the previous owners did anything to it (except paint every surface with vile plastic-like gloss paint which is a lot of fun to sand and remove). All light switches are in proper boxes built into walls (and flush with the wall). But only a few power sockets are like that. Most are the ugly white plastic boxes that stand 2 inches above the surface. The reason I think is that where there used to be just one, single wall socket hole in each room (sunk into the plaster, with internal wall trunking leading up to it), it's been converted into a double socket (and they didn't bother sinking this larger socket space into the plaster) - and then external trunking was used to create an extra socket on another wall. It looks alright, painted white same as the wall, blends in with the skirting board. It's the external radiator pipes I find more ugly, but am definitely not paying to have channels gouged in walls and floors to sink them. Partially because it is indeed ex-council so there's only so much money it makes sense to put into it.

But the mystery of these extra sockets remains. There already is an active light switch socket, and a power socket, each a few feet from these mothballed ones!

Owain_Moneysaver

Were the flats originally built with electric heating - maybe electric underfloor? The unused holes might have been for switches or thermostats for that system. In fact that looks very likely as the rounded outline for whatever was fitted on the upper socket (round box) looks like the shape of a 1960s thermostat. That would also match having the live in and switched out, and a single neutral for the thermostat accelerator heater.

In which case the system was probably disconnected years ago when they realised that all that too-cheap-to-meter nuclear electricity wasn't going to happen.

You can convert flush single sockets into almost-flush double sockets with Converta Sockets or cut out the flush single box and replace it with a flush double box fitted to the old conduit.