Burglary at flat - Landlord/Agent liable?

SJI85

Sorry for the long post but any feedback will be appreciated.


I began renting my current flat in August 2014. I am due to move out in early February 2016 so have only one month's rent left to pay.


I was away the weekend before last and came home on the Tuesday to find I'd been burgled. They had accessed the flat by the back door but there was no sign of forced entry. I tend not to use the back door (it was last used over a month ago) although there was that 10% of doubt whether I had locked it. The police assumed it was an unsecured back door after I admitted my doubt and possible negligence.


However, after this initial shock I have had time to reflect. I am sure I checked the back door was locked two weeks ago, after being prompted by my partner. It had not been used since then.


The previous tenants were evicted, were drug users, and had debt problems. Given that there is no sign of forced entry, but I am almost certain the door was locked, I am thinking they have entered the property (with cut keys or originals if they did not return them) and burgled my flat. The agents have told me that the locks were changed following the eviction (they were not the managing agents at the time afaik).


Regardless I have never been happy with the security of the flat. Anyone can have access to the back of my property (it is a shared garden, with alleyway from the front and no gate). Most importantly the back door is not an external door. It is an internal door, poorly fitted, with only one (weak) lock. The door actually moves significantly even when locked. The front door has cracks down it, possibly from forced entry previously. My blinds at the front room are broken allowing people to see through.


All these problems were reported to my agent. The blinds were only partly fixed (they refused to fix the main blind as I had temporarily fixed it - but it was clearly still broken). The front door was considered "weather beaten" but still strong enough. The back door never looked at.


Following the burglary my landlord is now getting new PVC doors fitted and fixing the blind.


I believe my agent and landlord to have been negligent and therefore liable for the losses I have incurred. Both for having such poor doors, namely an internal door as a back door, not fixing the blind, and (possibly) not changing the locks.


For my final rent payment I hope to deduct my losses from my rent, meaning a rent payment of £125 instead of £495. The agent/landlord will probably try and claim the money back from my deposit, which I will challenge (it is protected).


My problem is: -


1. Once the police officer arrived there was that 10% doubt I had locked the back door. The police report will mention the back door as being unsecured.


2. How can I prove the locks were not changed following the eviction of the previous tenants? All I can say is that they look old and one broke within six weeks of moving in. This lock needed to be replaced at full price - unusual if it was new and therefore under some guarantee.


Also any feedback on whether the landlord has been negligent, particularly in providing a poorly fitted, internal door (with single lock) as a back door?

Guest101

It's all irrelevant. They have no liability.

Had they left the door unlocked, then you might have a case.

But there is no obligation for locks to be changed between tenants.

You could've changed them yourself if you wanted to.

SJI85

In addition to this I've had other problems at the flat. Most particularly the boiler, which is 20 years old and not fit for purpose. kept breaking down. In total I was probably without heating and hot water for three weeks over last winter. They refused to replace the boiler until the Spring. There have been other issues with the flat which haven't been chased up by the agents. I have always been polite, paid my rent in full, and been a good tenant. This burglary, and the lack of concern shown regarding the inadequate doors, is the last straw.

Guest101

SJI85 wrote: »

In addition to this I've had other problems at the flat. Most particularly the boiler, which is 20 years old and not fit for purpose. kept breaking down. In total I was probably without heating and hot water for three weeks over last winter. They refused to replace the boiler until the Spring. There have been other issues with the flat which haven't been chased up by the agents. I have always been polite, paid my rent in full, and been a good tenant. This burglary, and the lack of concern shown regarding the inadequate doors, is the last straw.

None of that is relevant in any way to the burglary.

The doors were presumably there when you viewed the property.

ognum

SJI85 wrote: »

Sorry for the long post but any feedback will be appreciated.


I began renting my current flat in August 2014. I am due to move out in early February 2016 so have only one month's rent left to pay.


I was away the weekend before last and came home on the Tuesday to find I'd been burgled. They had accessed the flat by the back door but there was no sign of forced entry. I tend not to use the back door (it was last used over a month ago) although there was that 10% of doubt whether I had locked it. The police assumed it was an unsecured back door after I admitted my doubt and possible negligence.


However, after this initial shock I have had time to reflect. I am sure I checked the back door was locked two weeks ago, after being prompted by my partner. It had not been used since then.


The previous tenants were evicted, were drug users, and had debt problems. Given that there is no sign of forced entry, but I am almost certain the door was locked, I am thinking they have entered the property (with cut keys or originals if they did not return them) and burgled my flat. The agents have told me that the locks were changed following the eviction (they were not the managing agents at the time afaik).


Regardless I have never been happy with the security of the flat. Anyone can have access to the back of my property (it is a shared garden, with alleyway from the front and no gate). Most importantly the back door is not an external door. It is an internal door, poorly fitted, with only one (weak) lock. The door actually moves significantly even when locked. The front door has cracks down it, possibly from forced entry previously. My blinds at the front room are broken allowing people to see through.


All these problems were reported to my agent. The blinds were only partly fixed (they refused to fix the main blind as I had temporarily fixed it - but it was clearly still broken). The front door was considered "weather beaten" but still strong enough. The back door never looked at.


Following the burglary my landlord is now getting new PVC doors fitted and fixing the blind.


I believe my agent and landlord to have been negligent and therefore liable for the losses I have incurred. Both for having such poor doors, namely an internal door as a back door, not fixing the blind, and (possibly) not changing the locks.


For my final rent payment I hope to deduct my losses from my rent, meaning a rent payment of £125 instead of £495. The agent/landlord will probably try and claim the money back from my deposit, which I will challenge (it is protected).


My problem is: -


1. Once the police officer arrived there was that 10% doubt I had locked the back door. The police report will mention the back door as being unsecured.


2. How can I prove the locks were not changed following the eviction of the previous tenants? All I can say is that they look old and one broke within six weeks of moving in. This lock needed to be replaced at full price - unusual if it was new and therefore under some guarantee.


Also any feedback on whether the landlord has been negligent, particularly in providing a poorly fitted, internal door (with single lock) as a back door?

I am sorry this all must have been a shock to you.

What is it that you want from this situation, compensation, and apology, replacement of you lost good?

I am afraid I only have questions.

You have lived here for 17 months, why have you not changed the locks or requested them to be changed or even requested a bolt on a door you don't use?

Do you have insurance or do you expect the LL to pay for your goods.

What precautions did you take against burglary like leaving lights, radio on etc.

If you felt unsafe why did you stay there longer than you initial AST?

SJI85

Guest101 wrote: »

None of that is relevant in any way to the burglary.

The doors were presumably there when you viewed the property.

They were, yes, but then when you're desperate for a flat you need to take what is on offer. You don't have much bargaining power, nor was I a particularly fit state at the time. You cannot look at everything in the property in detail when viewing.


Bottom line is I moved in, realised the back door was an internal door, and brought this to their attention immediately yet nothing was done. As far as I'm aware landlord still have a duty of care and need to do all they reasonably can to ensure a property is secure?

ognum

SJI85 wrote: »

In addition to this I've had other problems at the flat. Most particularly the boiler, which is 20 years old and not fit for purpose. kept breaking down. In total I was probably without heating and hot water for three weeks over last winter. They refused to replace the boiler until the Spring. There have been other issues with the flat which haven't been chased up by the agents. I have always been polite, paid my rent in full, and been a good tenant. This burglary, and the lack of concern shown regarding the inadequate doors, is the last straw.

Ok now this is getting silly, you are talking about an issue from 9 months ago that is now resolved.

I ask again, what is it you want from you LL.

Guest101

SJI85 wrote: »

They were, yes, but then when you're desperate for a flat you need to take what is on offer. You don't have much bargaining power, nor was I a particularly fit state at the time. You cannot look at everything in the property in detail when viewing.


Bottom line is I moved in, realised the back door was an internal door, and brought this to their attention immediately yet nothing was done. As far as I'm aware landlord still have a duty of care and need to do all they reasonably can to ensure a property is secure?

No. You are incorrect.

I'm sorry and morally agree with you. Legally you don't have a case.

Perhaps if there was forced entry, but as you said there wasn't.

SJI85

ognum wrote: »

I am sorry this all must have been a shock to you.

What is it that you want from this situation, compensation, and apology, replacement of you lost good?

As explained in my post, I am offering a reduced rent payment. The stipulated rent minus the cost of goods lost.

You have lived here for 17 months, why have you not changed the locks or requested them to be changed or even requested a bolt on a door you don't use?

For the vast majority of the time I have lived there I have been on IR ESA. Changing the locks myself (which I am not allowed to do without landlord permission) was prohibitive due to the cost. But I rather naively assumed the locks had been changed. It never really occurred to me that they might not have been, really. It has only been the burglary which has made me reflect on this and realise the locks must be older.


In terms of the doors I haven't exactly remained quiet. I brought the back door to their attention on two occasions but no action was taken.

Do you have insurance or do you expect the LL to pay for your goods.

I don't have insurance (for various reasons, besides the excess I would need to pay would be not much less than what I have lost) but I don't expect the LL to pay.


Even if I had insurance I don't think I would be able to claim due to the burglary being unforced entry (officially).

What precautions did you take against burglary like leaving lights, radio on etc.

A lamp was left on a timer in the two bedrooms (one is at the front, the other at the side). No radio was left on - I was away for three days, have no external speakers, and its a flat where noise travels easily - my neighbours would not have been pleased.

If you felt unsafe why did you stay there longer than you initial AST?

I felt reasonably safe, particularly in the area. I suppose I was complacent, thinking "it'll never happen to me" so didn't push the agents as much as I could have done. I can certainly shoulder some of the blame.

SJI85

Guest101 wrote: »

No. You are incorrect.

I'm sorry and morally agree with you. Legally you don't have a case.

Perhaps if there was forced entry, but as you said there wasn't.

But this is the difficulty. Forced entry might still have occurred for all we know, there just aren't signs of forced entry. My back door is the perfect candidate for a "bump" key - which often does not leave a sign of forced entry.


It's just a shame that it's taken a burglary for them to stand up and listen (getting new PVC doors).


Thanks for the feedback!

phill99

Do not deduct the cost of your losses from the rent. The landlord will, and justifiably so, recover this from your deposit.


As an occupier, you have responsibilities to ensure the property is secure. at what point have you WRITTEN to the landlord identifying poor security? What reasonable steps did you take while you were away? None at all! Therefore you have no grounds to deduct losses from your rent.