Burglary at flat - Landlord/Agent liable?

SJI85

phill99 wrote: »

As an occupier, you have responsibilities to ensure the property is secure. at what point have you WRITTEN to the landlord identifying poor security? What reasonable steps did you take while you were away? None at all! Therefore you have no grounds to deduct losses from your rent.

As explained in my previous posts on a number of occasions I wrote to the managing agents identifying poor security. I made specific reference to the back door and poor state of the front door.


When I moved in I immediately took steps to temporarily repair the blind, expecting my agent to replace it. They only partly replaced the blinds. I chased this up on two occasions, stating my concern regarding security, with no success.


While I was away I had a lamp on in each of the bedrooms (with a timer) and, as far as I'm aware, all locks were locked. I did not leave the blinds open, which would be a risk. I do not what other steps I could have taken.


Don't think I have taken no actions whatsoever.

mrginge

SJI85 wrote: »

Sorry for the long post but any feedback will be appreciated.
...

I believe my agent and landlord to have been negligent and therefore liable for the losses I have incurred. Both for having such poor doors, namely an internal door as a back door, not fixing the blind, and (possibly) not changing the locks.

I'm afraid they have not been negligent and are not liable for your losses.

For my final rent payment I hope to deduct my losses from my rent, meaning a rent payment of £125 instead of £495. The agent/landlord will probably try and claim the money back from my deposit, which I will challenge (it is protected).

You have no right to do this. Your actions are the equivalent of the LL kicking you out on the street two weeks before your agreed departure date. No doubt you would have a big moan about that.

My problem is: -

1. Once the police officer arrived there was that 10% doubt I had locked the back door. The police report will mention the back door as being unsecured.


2. How can I prove the locks were not changed following the eviction of the previous tenants? All I can say is that they look old and one broke within six weeks of moving in. This lock needed to be replaced at full price - unusual if it was new and therefore under some guarantee.


Also any feedback on whether the landlord has been negligent, particularly in providing a poorly fitted, internal door (with single lock) as a back door?

You are going to lose.

discat11

Sorry, but unless you can prove, beyond reasonable doubt that someone else is liable for your losses or part thereof, you'll have to accept them as your own responsibility.

If you don't pay the rent (whatever the reason) then expect to be evicted tout suite or your deposit to be withheld. I think you can also guarantee a very poor reference to any new LL also, hardly worth £300 quid odd IME as it could screw up your hope of renting elsewhere for years to come.

SJI85

discat11 wrote: »

Sorry, but unless you can prove, beyond reasonable doubt that someone else is liable for your losses or part thereof, you'll have to accept them as your own responsibility.

If you don't pay the rent (whatever the reason) then expect to be evicted tout suite or your deposit to be withheld. I think you can also guarantee a very poor reference to any new LL also, hardly worth £300 quid odd IME as it could screw up your hope of renting elsewhere for years to come.

I am aware that I need to prove beyond reasonable doubt. I can quite easily prove that the doors (and locks) are inadequate and I brought this up several times with the agent. I also took almost every (if not every) reasonably step to secure the property that I could have taken.



I am also aware that this will would result in a poor reference (though in my years of renting I have never been asked for a reference). However, I will no longer be renting. I am moving in with my fianc! after Christmas, who owns her house. I don't envisage renting again. Certainly not for some time.


As a poor reference is not a concern, and it's my last rent payment, what would I lose by withholding rent? If all I will lose is most of my deposit, which I would be paying in rent anyway, then I have nothing to lose?

G_M

You should report your concerns about the previous tenants to the police who will use the information as part of their investigation.

True - police have little time/resources these days, and the 'investigation' may be limited, but that does not alter the fact that that is the proper route.

You have a duty of care towards yourself and your possessions. Knowing that the previous tenants were evicted drug users, you should perhaps have changed the locks......

SJI85

G_M wrote: »

You should report your concerns about the previous tenants to the police who will use the information as part of their investigation.

True - police have little time/resources these days, and the 'investigation' may be limited, but that does not alter the fact that that is the proper route.

Yes I am already in the process of doing this.

You have a duty of care towards yourself and your possessions. Knowing that the previous tenants were evicted drug users, you should perhaps have changed the locks......

As explained in my earlier posts, until practically the week of the robbery I have been reliant on income related ESA and housing benefit. How can someone reliant on such state benefits (so on a very low income) possibly be able to afford to change the locks (one of which was a very expensive double lock)? Moreover it was my naïve belief that the locks had been changed. I took every reasonable step I could have taken.


Even if I did have the money it would require my landlord's permission to change the locks. This permission is not a given.

G_M

Well

a) NOT replacing the lock is more expensive unless you can reclaim your losses off insurance and

b) lock relacement costs £5 - £25 or so (OK - dependant on style). It's not a fortune. And you have a spare lock to use for the rest of your life in every property you move to so it's a great long-term investment too.

Or you could even sell the spare later to recoup some cash.

ognum

SJI85 wrote: »

Yes I am already in the process of doing this.





As explained in my earlier posts, until practically the week of the robbery I have been reliant on income related ESA and housing benefit. How can someone reliant on such state benefits (so on a very low income) possibly be able to afford to change the locks (one of which was a very expensive double lock)? Moreover it was my naïve belief that the locks had been changed. I took every reasonable step I could have taken.


Even if I did have the money it would require my landlord's permission to change the locks. This permission is not a given.

The cost of a bolt is minimal, you could have put two bolts on the back door that you never use and it would have been secure.

Did you ask permission to change the locks or add a bolt?

Don't withold the rent, it will be deducted from your deposit and then you will need to fight to get it back and the LL will be very picky about the rest of the property.

You lost £375 worth of goods, is that the new value or the secondhand value?

Kynthia

You have zero proof that a previous tenant robbed you. You are also recommended to have contents insurance to protect yourself. So how can you unilaterally decide the landlord should cover your losses instead of you? I'm not saying I think your landlord is great but I don't think you can shift your losses to him.

My flat was broken into once. Initially it was claimed that the communal door showed no signs of forced entry so the freeholder blamed the residents saying one of us had left the door unlocked. However a locksmith employed to change the locks confirmed that the door had been forced.

SJI85

G_M wrote: »

Well

a) NOT replacing the lock is more expensive unless you can reclaim your losses off insurance and

b) lock relacement costs £5 - £25 or so (OK - dependant on style). It's not a fortune. And you have a spare lock to use for the rest of your life in every property you move to so it's a great long-term investment too.

Or you could even sell the spare later to recoup some cash.

The potential cost of not replacing the lock, perhaps. That said, I don't think there is any difference. I believe the double lock on the front door was worth £100. My landlord would not have allowed me to change the lock (if change them at all) unless I bought a lock of a similar quality.


Note that it is not the locks on the front door I have an issue with. Apart from the bottom lock being very loose, which was easily fixed by myself, they were adequate. The problem was the cracked and weakened door, and both the door and lock at the (more vulnerable) back.


The end of the day, it is not acceptable for any landlord to rent out a property which uses an internal door as an external door.