On the Breadline on £190k a Year

setmefree2

martinsurrey wrote: »

apart from the obvious (who's to say that the private school kid would have done as well in state, unless you manage to put the same kid through school twice...)

All I can say is that I know loads of folk - their kids have gone to all sorts of schools - non-religious London state schools, religious London state schools, very posh religious London state schools ( think Oratory & Cardinal Vaughan), private normal London schools, posh private London schools (think St Pauls and Latymer), Grammar schools in Bucks, private schools in Berks, Grammar schools in Richmond, private schools in Surrey, state schools in Surrey

- every type of school going -

20 years later our kids are all young adults - the kids who were capable of going to Oxbridge and wanted to work ridiculously hard got there, the kids who wanted to do medicine, dentistry, veterinary and law degrees got there - whatever school they were in. The rest are in Russell Group Unis - doing what makes them happy, Physics, maths, Business, Econoics, English,etc, etc - whatever school they were in.

This has led me to believe that paying for education in London and the SE (can't speak for the rest of the country) is a waste of money.

I actually know someone who says they wasted money paying for their kid's education - they wished instead they'd used the money to give them a deposit on a flat.

martinsurrey

setmefree2 wrote: »

All I can say is that I know loads of folk - their kids have gone to all sorts of schools - non-religious London state schools, religious London state schools, very posh religious London state schools ( think Oratory & Cardinal Vaughan), private normal London schools, posh private London schools (think St Pauls and Latymer), Grammar schools in Bucks, private schools in Berks, Grammar schools in Richmond, private schools in Surrey, state schools in Surrey

- every type of school going -

20 years later our kids are all young adults - the kids who were capable of going to Oxbridge and wanted to work ridiculously hard got there - whatever school they were in. The rest are in Russell Group Unis - doing what makes them happy - whatever school they were in.

This has led me to believe that paying for education is a waste of money.

I actually know someone who says they wasted money paying for their kid's education - they wished instead they'd used the money to give them a deposit on a flat.

And I hand it to you and your friends for raising happy successful children.

How many of the state schools you mention were in special measures? Or were they top end state schools with tight (affluent) catchments?

I agree the state can do fantastically well, and produce happy successful children, but the numbers don't lie.

Private school kids are 3 times as likely to get straight top grades at A-level, are 6 times more likely to go to Oxbridge, and 6 times more likely to be on the board of a FTSE 100 company...

Some of that will be wrapped up in parental history and nepotism, but, they are one hell of a bunch of stats, and it wont hurt you kids chances to be friends with the kids of the parents who can get them through doors later in life.

FTSE board link

(I wont be using a private school, but I do appreciate the advantages they give)

Generali

BobQ wrote: »

Not at all, I am sure that there are many (probably a majority) well paid people who pay all their taxes. But that does not mean that they all do this. Some are just plan greedy.

It may be the case that there two individuals are on PAYE and pay every penny they are required to. But even that would not explain their inability to cope on £190K unless they are just another couple living beyond their means, which can apply on much lower incomes.

Look at the HMRC data. The rich pay most of the tax. It's nice to put a moral spin on how they dodge paying their fair share but the fact is that they don't for the most part.

CLAPTON

setmefree2 wrote: »

All I can say is that I know loads of folk - their kids have gone to all sorts of schools - non-religious London state schools, religious London state schools, very posh religious London state schools ( think Oratory & Cardinal Vaughan), private normal London schools, posh private London schools (think St Pauls and Latymer), Grammar schools in Bucks, private schools in Berks, Grammar schools in Richmond, private schools in Surrey, state schools in Surrey

- every type of school going -

20 years later our kids are all young adults - the kids who were capable of going to Oxbridge and wanted to work ridiculously hard got there, the kids who wanted to do medicine, dentistry, veterinary and law degrees got there - whatever school they were in. The rest are in Russell Group Unis - doing what makes them happy, Physics, maths, Business, Econoics, English,etc, etc - whatever school they were in.

This has led me to believe that paying for education in London and the SE (can't speak for the rest of the country) is a waste of money.

I actually know someone who says they wasted money paying for their kid's education - they wished instead they'd used the money to give them a deposit on a flat.

That seems to conclusively prove that all children based in London and the surrounding areas go to Russell group unis.

setmefree2

Private school kids are 3 times as likely to get straight top grades at A-level, are 6 times more likely to go to Oxbridge, and 6 times more likely to be on the board of a FTSE 100 company...

There is a correlation between great grades and private schools because they are full of middle class kids. The causality of the great grades is the middle classes of the kids not the school. The kids of parents with the right attitude will do well an any school (provided the kids are up for it).

All educational research shows exactly this.

[Deleted User]

setmefree2 wrote: »

There is a correlation between great grades and private schools because they are full of middle class kids. The causality of the great grades is the middle classes of the kids not the school. The kids of parents with the right attitude will do well an any school (provided the kids are up for it).

All educational research shows exactly this.

I don't believe that grades are the only issue at play with private schools. I think that *some* good private schools can engage children to be more aspirational, confident, and have a set of skills more likely to make them push towards exceptional success.

I'm lucky that my kids state primary school is chock-full of middle class parents, many of which who could send their kids private if they wanted to.. I expect that the results aren't too dissimilar to private primary schools.

setmefree2

CLAPTON wrote: »

That seems to conclusively prove that all children based in London and the surrounding areas go to Russell group unis.

That's been my experience.

London pupils are more likely to go to university than anywhere else in Britain, new figures reveal. Wimbledon topped the table, with 68 per cent of students going on to higher education, followed by East Harrow and Richmond Park, Westminster, Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/london-pupils-leading-the-way-in-going-to-university-8901512.html


Anyways, I'm just saying that imho I'm not sure private education is worth the money. I think the op would probably be better off sending their kids to state schools, from a financial point of view. They'll be so much better off in 20 years time.

martinsurrey

setmefree2 wrote: »

There is a correlation between great grades and private schools because they are full of middle class kids. The causality of the great grades is the middle classes of the kids not the school. The kids of parents with the right attitude will do well an any school (provided the kids are up for it).

All educational research shows exactly this.

How come kids in private schools, while 3 times more likely to get straight A's are 6 times more likely to get to Oxbridge/FTSE 100 board?

That means there is something going on that means a bright private kid is twice as likely as an equally bright state kid to make it to the top (after A-levels).

Its about more than grades (and again, I agree a bright kid will do well anywhere, but its about that edge that separates 99% of potential from 95%).

[Deleted User]

martinsurrey wrote: »

How come kids in private schools, while 3 times more likely to get straight A's are 6 times more likely to get to Oxbridge/FTSE 100 board?

That means there is something going on that means a bright private kid is twice as likely as an equally bright state kid to make it to the top (after A-levels).

Its about more than grades (and again, I agree a bright kid will do well anywhere, but its about that edge that separates 99% of potential from 95%).

When I went to school, a decent comprehensive in Lancashire, I had no idea what jobs or career paths would push me towards financial success. None of my friends parents were professionals. I had no contacts or connections. The area was not one with high-earning individuals (their kids all went to the major private school in town). It didn't matter what grades I got - i never had the idea of how to steer a professional career path. No one even talked to me about Uni when I was at my 6th form college. I've forged a career by my own wits - but I know I'll struggle to ever get past middle-management.

I now look at my son's school, which is in a much richer area in outer London, and there are pilots, doctors, lawyers, accountants kids - we're on the edge of London and without working to hard, I can get my kids work experience at big prestigious firms. My kids will know examples of people in professional jobs that they can talk to and gain inspiration from.

Me? I did my work experience in the office of Bury Market.

Even if my kids don't go private, they'll have my 'Outer London' connections to assist them in gaining work experience, and maybe a job after uni.

setmefree2

martinsurrey wrote: »

How come kids in private schools, while 3 times more likely to get straight A's are 6 times more likely to get to Oxbridge/FTSE 100 board?

That means there is something going on that means a bright private kid is twice as likely as an equally bright state kid to make it to the top (after A-levels).

Its about more than grades (and again, I agree a bright kid will do well anywhere, but its about that edge that separates 99% of potential from 95%).

Perhaps the middle class parents who pay for schooling are actually more likely to push their kids to go to Oxbridge whether their kids want to go or not?

Our eldest got A* A* A at A level and refused to consider Oxbridge. This was the right thing for him and he had a fab time at Uni. Maybe if I'd spent £150k educating him we would have felt differently?

I know a lot of kids who have gone to Oxbridge over the last five years. Only one of them, I would say, didn't have a completely miserable university experience. As a parent you have to be a bit of a sadist to want to inflict Oxbridge as a university experience on your kids. I do know some kids who wanted Oxbridge for themselves and the parents have wondered why the kids were punishing themselves so much. Some parents I know actually have felt sad that their kids went went to Oxbridge and feel like their kids really missed out on the whole "uni was the best years of my life" thing. These are the kids that barely have any friends, never went to a prom and got to 21 without having a girlfriend/boyfriend. The kids who studied every day of the year - including xmas eve and boxing day. Truly,the kids who barely have a life outside their studies.

Maybe if you pay £150k to educate your kids to A Level - you are more likely to want the Oxbridge sort of Uni experience for your kids?