On the Breadline on £190k a Year

kabayiri

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

I've met some astoundingly thick people who went to private school.

You can't guarantee your children's academic prowess.

You can make sure they move in circles occupied by other wealthy families.

Having connections can make the difference when it comes to work.

BobQ

Are these real people?

If they cannot survive on these poverty wages they should try getting a real job that makes a useful contribution to society.

Generali

BobQ wrote: »

Are these real people?

If they cannot survive on these poverty wages they should try getting a real job that makes a useful contribution to society.

You don't think that employing people and paying thousands in tax each month is a useful contribution to society? I thought you were in favour of tax and spend policies.

If you're going to soak the rich you need rich people to soak!

BobQ

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

I've met some astoundingly thick people who went to private school.

Yes but you have to ask how thick you would have thought them had they been sent to the average comprehensive. A private school education probably made such people sound as if they had a plausible education to the less than discerning observer.

setmefree2

martinsurrey wrote: »

I speak from experience, I was northern comp educated, sailed through A levels, should have gone to Oxbridge, but didn't even apply as I was scared off the application process by my school, and my wife was comp educated in Surrey, walked A levels and got hammered by the interview at Cambridge as it was the first time anyone had asked her questions of that type, we've both been successful, and are glad we got the education we did, but who knows how much further we could have gone with the confidence a private school would have given.

Schools have changed a lot since your day. Large numbers of kids go to Oxbridge from my kids state sixth form. In fact, there is a lot of pressure on kids to apply to Oxbridge.

Pennywise

kabayiri wrote: »

You can't guarantee your children's academic prowess.

You can make sure they move in circles occupied by other wealthy families.

Having connections can make the difference when it comes to work.

The converse also applies.

Kids that move in circles occupied by chavs and parents who don't give a toss are more likely to do worse.

Having connections with other chavs and !!!!less parents can likewise make a difference (though detrimental) to work.

martinsurrey

setmefree2 wrote: »

Schools have changed a lot since your day. Large numbers of kids go to Oxbridge from my kids state sixth form. In fact, there is a lot of pressure on the kids to apply to Oxbridge.

my day might not be as long ago as you think...

Oxford numbers

Student numbers

at Oxford 55% of places for UK students went to state schools in 2013, while state schools made up 93% of students.

and I accept there are high performing state schools, but these are the exception, just like low performing private is the exception.

michaels

martinsurrey wrote: »

my day might not be as long ago as you think...

https://www.ox.ac.uk/media/global/wwwoxacuk/localsites/gazette/documents/statisticalinformation/admissionsstatistics/Admissions_Statistics_2013.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/219260/sfr10-2012.pdf

at Oxford 55% of places for UK students went to state schools in 2013, while state schools made up 93% of students.

and I accept there are high performing state schools, but these are the exception, just like low performing private is the exception.

I would argue that there is:
A correlation between intelligence and income
A correlation between income and likelihood to privately educate children
A correlation between parental intelligence and child intelligence.

Therefore I am not certain that your statistic 'prooves' that Oxford admissions are biased towards privately educated children.

I went to a secondary turned comprehensive and state sixth form, family background with no public school, and didn't feel that that impacted on my Cambridge application in the late 80s. My feeling is that today top universities would choose an equaly talented and qualified state school candidate over a private school one in order to acheive less embarrassing statistics.

BobQ

Generali wrote: »

You don't think that employing people and paying thousands in tax each month is a useful contribution to society? I thought you were in favour of tax and spend policies.

If you're going to soak the rich you need rich people to soak!

True they "probably" do make a financial contribution but I have this old fashioned idea that there are jobs that are valuable (ie have a good purpose and useful outcome for society) and those that just exist and benefit nobody but the one doing them or people like them). I say "probably" because they are quite likely to be self employed and organise their affairs to avoid paying the taxes that people like paramedics have to pay.

I also wonder if the management consultant (Tom?) is that good at his job. After all he probably spends his days telling firms how to be more efficient and organised, whereas he seems incapable of organising his own life efficiently despite a relatively high income and wealth compared to those he probably tries hard to make redundant.

Sorry you have caught me on cynical Tuesday!

martinsurrey

michaels wrote: »

I went to a secondary turned comprehensive and state sixth form, family background with no public school, and didn't feel that that impacted on my Cambridge application in the late 80s. My feeling is that today top universities would choose an equaly talented and qualified state school candidate over a private school one in order to acheive less embarrassing statistics.

I agree there is a link as you mentioned, but there are 5 times as many private school kids in oxford 2013 intake as you would expect if all else equal.

I agree they will pick state school if they appear equal, however private schools drill their applicants before their Oxbridge interview, and a lot of what they teach is done in a manner which preps their students to answer well at interview (which is used to differentiate between hundreds of straight A*) while a state school kid might not have had the training, making it a lot harder for them to show that they are equal.

dont get me wrong, the state does a great job in most cases, but private offers something thats not universally available in state shools