Need a new job following Dismissal (Unfair but not proved)

duff67

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Meet-up has lots of photography based groups - for all levels.

I'm a member of a few groups and they organise trips and share knowledge. Maybe you might meet someone who needs a hand from time to time or can subcontract work to you?

You could even start your own group if none was close enough - that way, you'd have something on your CV too about external activities.

A 'shout out' is sent out locally about new groups - I saw one recently for middle aged unemployed folks wanting to get together to share ideas and experience. Also, there are lots of breakfast clubs for self employed people wanting to skill share and barter... so all good for getting connected. It's easier to explain and network in an informal setting so you might have more success than on paper.

Thank you. I had no knowledge of this so glad its something I haven't looked at yet as it could be an avenue.

Much appreciate the background and direction. Thank you

robatwork

Forgive me for going back over this but it is relevant.

You have been dismissed for Gross Misconduct - is that correct?

And the misconduct was that you had some lingerie pictures (that weren't of yourself or fellow members of staff) on your personal facebook page?

Also have you seen the actual reference that the bank are sending out?

duff67

robatwork wrote: »

Forgive me for going back over this but it is relevant.

You have been dismissed for Gross Misconduct - is that correct?

And the misconduct was that you had some lingerie pictures (that weren't of yourself or fellow members of staff) on your personal facebook page?

Also have you seen the actual reference that the bank are sending out?

Robatwork - yes.

Dismissal ccan only be actioned under Gross Misconduct - so I was dismissed for Gross Misconduct. Not warned or sanctioned for the matter - straight dismissal.

The lingerie pictures were of female models (paid) outside of my personal or working life & were taken in studio setting. The Bank's reasoning at dismissal was ' concern if customers linked me as their manager to the images ' (Agatha Christie would have had a task to do that, but the FB page did have a headshot of me and my daughter so..????).

The Bank also had gathered a couple of statements from female members of staff (random) and had led them (leading questions), to state they felt uncomfortable with the images - therefore the discipline manager (also my line manager looking to reduce numbers) - added he had considered all options and whilst he had taken into account my 30years, he felt he could not return me to the workplace as that would be 'dangerous' (lol!!).

No I haven't seen the reference, but I was told verbally when I complained with regard the previous withdrawal based on ref, that it states the years worked and the reason for leaving. The latter being - Gross Misconduct - Dismissed.

Do you have a thought ??


I was hoping someone would know someone or know of an opening somewhere, that would be a job opportunity - it would be hard both financially and emotionally to return any challenge to what has happened - I just need someone to give me a chance, with understanding, to return to the workplace.

robatwork

If this really is the extent of your misconduct then I believe you have been unfairly dismissed and that a warning would have been sufficient.

According to you, you haven't said anything on social media that has denigrated your bank.

I must say I generally side with employers on this forum more than most, but would love to see this go to a tribunal .I know you have run out of funds but would urge you to seek a no win no fee solicitor, as you have been treated most unfairly.

As to what kind of work you can do now - what about something you don't need a reference for such as self employed gardener?

xapprenticex

Sorry to hear this has happened to you, must be rough. This is what can happen when you work for one employer for your whole career, very very dependant on them 'playing ball' with you as they are your sole referee.

Hope it works out.

sangie595

robatwork wrote: »

If this really is the extent of your misconduct then I believe you have been unfairly dismissed and that a warning would have been sufficient.

According to you, you haven't said anything on social media that has denigrated your bank.

I must say I generally side with employers on this forum more than most, but would love to see this go to a tribunal .I know you have run out of funds but would urge you to seek a no win no fee solicitor, as you have been treated most unfairly.

As to what kind of work you can do now - what about something you don't need a reference for such as self employed gardener?

This all happened a year ago. It is out of time, even if the case hadn't been withdrawn (and as such cannot be revisited again).

Unfortunately, I would have to suggest that it may actually be the OP's attitude that is at least partly contributing to their continued unemployment. In the first place, I regret to have to point out that this was not an unfair dismissal. And before everyone jumps on me, hear me out. It doesn't matter whether anyone here thinks it is harsh or wrong or "unfair". The fact is that an unfair dismissal means one thing and one thing only - that a tribunal has found the dismissal to be unfair in law. That hasn't happened, so anything past that is irrelevant. For all a potential employer knows, the lawyers letter is from his 2nd cousin once removed on his mothers side. It has absolutely no value. The same applies to the OP's collection of case papers.

Attempting to prove the previous employer wrong to the new employer is not going to be an advantageous argument - the majority of employers don't want to hear what was wrong with your last / current employer, and are going to assume that if you are willing to do the same to them. My advice would be to wait until you are offered a job, and then disclose the fact that you were dismissed and why, but avoiding any blame - something along the lines of an explanation of what happened and why, an admission that whilst you didn't intend to do anything wrong you can understand that your actions could have been misinterpreted, and that you had learned your lesson from the incident. Employers aren't uniformly understanding as a rule, but this kind of explanation gives them the opportunity to consider that the incident was unfortunate but closed, and maybe they wouldn't do the same thing, and aren't they really nice people to think that? - which is what you want them to do.

Secondly. never mention tribunals to employers unless you have won, and even then, avoid it unless you have no other option. Because that also starts alarm bells ringing, in that you may be a bit "trigger happy" about making claims, which is a potential risk and cost to them. They don't know you aren't, so don't invite them to think it. You see it often enough around here - someone hasn't been unfairly dismissed, has been told so, and suddenly out of nowhere it's "because of race" or whatever. People who are like this are few and far between, but you don't want to invite someone to think you may be one of them.

It is always harder to get another job after a dismissal, especially for gross misconduct, but people do manage it. There has been a lot of good advice on here about other ways of getting a reference and so on. But the problem is that that only goes so far, and you can end up constantly looking over your shoulder for the other boot to drop - when the employer finds out about the previous dismissal that you didn't mention. If you can obtain other employment despite the dismissal, then you have got the job on your own merit and having told the truth, which means that you won't have to wait for the past to come out. Remember, if you fail to disclose a dismissal and it comes out later, the employer is entitled to dismiss, and it is even harder if you have two dismissals on the record.

duff67

robatwork wrote: »

If this really is the extent of your misconduct then I believe you have been unfairly dismissed and that a warning would have been sufficient.

According to you, you haven't said anything on social media that has denigrated your bank.

I must say I generally side with employers on this forum more than most, but would love to see this go to a tribunal .I know you have run out of funds but would urge you to seek a no win no fee solicitor, as you have been treated most unfairly.

As to what kind of work you can do now - what about something you don't need a reference for such as self employed gardener?

Thank you for a little bit of 'given sympathy'. I know, after age, length of employment and an era of youth where I was taught at school and home as to the difference between right and wrong, that I am a gentleman and will always be. I therefore know that what happened was wrong and I tried to prove it through tribunal.

However I was not aware that loopholes and greater knowledge on the Banks side would mean extended time drained a normal mans funds, and I had to withdraw. I stood up for right and am proud to have the guts to have done so - but in the cruel news of this current world - standing up for what is right is, apparently wrong.

Time and a signed declaration with the Bank means I cannot retrace the case. I also haven't the heart

Thank you for your input

duff67

xapprenticex wrote: »

Sorry to hear this has happened to you, must be rough. This is what can happen when you work for one employer for your whole career, very very dependant on them 'playing ball' with you as they are your sole referee.

Hope it works out.

Thank you. I appreciate your kind wishes.

I will not be recommending longevity and loyalty to one employer, to my three children, who like me have all secured work following education.

duff67

sangie595 wrote: »

This all happened a year ago. It is out of time, even if the case hadn't been withdrawn (and as such cannot be revisited again).

Unfortunately, I would have to suggest that it may actually be the OP's attitude that is at least partly contributing to their continued unemployment. In the first place, I regret to have to point out that this was not an unfair dismissal. And before everyone jumps on me, hear me out. It doesn't matter whether anyone here thinks it is harsh or wrong or "unfair". The fact is that an unfair dismissal means one thing and one thing only - that a tribunal has found the dismissal to be unfair in law. That hasn't happened, so anything past that is irrelevant. For all a potential employer knows, the lawyers letter is from his 2nd cousin once removed on his mothers side. It has absolutely no value. The same applies to the OP's collection of case papers.

Attempting to prove the previous employer wrong to the new employer is not going to be an advantageous argument - the majority of employers don't want to hear what was wrong with your last / current employer, and are going to assume that if you are willing to do the same to them. My advice would be to wait until you are offered a job, and then disclose the fact that you were dismissed and why, but avoiding any blame - something along the lines of an explanation of what happened and why, an admission that whilst you didn't intend to do anything wrong you can understand that your actions could have been misinterpreted, and that you had learned your lesson from the incident. Employers aren't uniformly understanding as a rule, but this kind of explanation gives them the opportunity to consider that the incident was unfortunate but closed, and maybe they wouldn't do the same thing, and aren't they really nice people to think that? - which is what you want them to do.

Secondly. never mention tribunals to employers unless you have won, and even then, avoid it unless you have no other option. Because that also starts alarm bells ringing, in that you may be a bit "trigger happy" about making claims, which is a potential risk and cost to them. They don't know you aren't, so don't invite them to think it. You see it often enough around here - someone hasn't been unfairly dismissed, has been told so, and suddenly out of nowhere it's "because of race" or whatever. People who are like this are few and far between, but you don't want to invite someone to think you may be one of them.

It is always harder to get another job after a dismissal, especially for gross misconduct, but people do manage it. There has been a lot of good advice on here about other ways of getting a reference and so on. But the problem is that that only goes so far, and you can end up constantly looking over your shoulder for the other boot to drop - when the employer finds out about the previous dismissal that you didn't mention. If you can obtain other employment despite the dismissal, then you have got the job on your own merit and having told the truth, which means that you won't have to wait for the past to come out. Remember, if you fail to disclose a dismissal and it comes out later, the employer is entitled to dismiss, and it is even harder if you have two dismissals on the record.

Thank you

Your points are fair and well presented. I appreciate your input.

I am trying to seek help moving forward, as opposed to reviewing the past.

I would say though, whether the correct understanding of being able to quote 'unfair dismissal' is the progression through tribunal, this was unfair and, in my opinion and those of the facts, pre meditated actions to achieve on the Banks part. Perhaps I should be stating 'unfair legal system process' which allows 'normal average class people to run out of money before fairness can be judged in court.

Perhaps I should be stating 'unfairness' of past employers for actions taken and choices made. Perhaps 'unfairness' of potential employers who make false assumptions based on two words (gross misconduct), rather than be willing to look at the achievements of individuals over a 30year unblemished record.

However it is stated - it is unfair.

Drug taking athletes get a second chance. I've known staff who have been disciplined for fraud of a cunning and devious way, resign (as no doubt of their guilt on all sides) and return to work in finance within 3 weeks.

All I have is the truth, an openness to show a future employer the papers to prove I didn't steal, commit fraud, accost a member of staff etc etc and I javelin a solicitors letter from a solicitor who does not appear in my family tree who has applied the law to my papers and seen both sides of the case. I have nothing else to offer, but have done my best.

I take your point re mentioning tribunals, but thought it would show I was of no doubt the Banks actions were wrong. But I will avoid in future as there is sense in your advice.

I will never lie ( return to my upbringing) to gain unfair advantage. I believe however bad my situation progresses. I have standards and the actions of others will not force my hand in this respect. So I will never be looking over my shoulder and I know that's best.

Finally I am grateful for your full and frank reply and thank you for taking such time to pass on some valuable thoughts.

duff67

ADDED NOTE RE THIS POST

I am grateful for the input to my original post.

It has taken me a while to 'live with' the actions of my previous employer and to look forward, not back.

It was not my intention to cover more than my original words in the post, but I have added more as the thoughts have requested. However, it gains nothing learning of sympathy, what the law could have done, what I should have done - I cannot return to a time of sanity and a re try ....

May I ask, moving forward that focus is given to HOW I can obtain work, possibly of a similar nature eg Office work OR any employer / small firm that are aware of my situation and can offer assistance in the form of a role.

I receive much empathy when discussed face to face, much outcry and solidarity on forums along with those who prefer to sit on the fence stating 'two sides to every stories'. However none of this helps me to £live and when people move on, I am left with no solution.

I hope you all can accept and thank those taking time to read of my plight.

If I add nothing more, I would say to all employed - be careful. You are useful to your employer, until you are not useful. You are paid by your employer, until you become too costly for your employer, you may be young and indispensable now, but you will get older each year and perhaps not be the future in your employers eyes. Nothing is certain.

Thanks and I remain hopeful someone, somewhere has an offer to employ me.