Rent increase advice.

Guest101

MrINeedOfHelp wrote: »

Thanks again hopefully I can use all this and go to our landlord about the issue and try and resolve it now.

BTW would you or any other poster know what the landlord could provide as suitable proof that the council received council tax payments for our flat?

They would have a bill, or can request one.


If the council think you are responsible you can ask for a copy.

MrINeedOfHelp

Ok thanks, I have now asked our Landlord for that, hopefully they provide it and we can resolve it.

If it is found that in the end my partner and I must pay is there any official way in which we can serve notice on our landlord about it and inform them there would be a reduction in our rent payment to account for previously outstanding council tax since we were paying that to the LL directly only for it to be found we were indeed liable/not been paid at all?.

Pixie5740

Does the landlord have to prove to the tenants of an HMO that the council tax has indeed been paid (assuming you do in fact live in an HMO)? Couldn't you just phone up the council and check there is no council tax owing for the property?

I'm still confused as to what it is you are trying to achieve here. Your landlord wants to increase the rent. You don't want to pay the increased rent. The landlord can quite easily and legally have you evicted from the property with you footing the cost of the eviction if he has to go all the way to court and bailiffs. So what exactly are you trying to achieve with all this council tax malarkey?

Guest101

MrINeedOfHelp wrote: »

Ok thanks, I have now asked our Landlord for that, hopefully they provide it and we can resolve it.

If it is found that in the end my partner and I must pay is there any official way in which we can serve notice on our landlord about it and inform them there would be a reduction in our rent payment to account for previously outstanding council tax since we were paying that to the LL directly only for it to be found we were indeed liable/not been paid at all?.

here you have a slight problem. And we do the reasonable person test:


the problem is thus:
If this is a HMO, the LL is automatically liable for council tax, and so the council cannot force you to pay. You will therefore never be able to deduct it fromt he rent.


However if it is not a HMO, the LL is not liable by law. Your contract states 'bills included', council tax is not a typical 'bill', it's a tax. The reasonable person would, in my opinion, check whether this included council tax. If you therefore have it written anywhere (letter is best, but email would be better than nothing) that it is indeed included, then the LL has a contractual duty to pay. You could therefore, mitigate your losses, by deducting the council tax payment from the rent.


It would be reasonable to do so, as to avoid costly court action.


It would also be reasonable to write to the LL as thus:


Dear Mr/Miss/Mrs/Dr....


Please be advised that as per our tenancy agreement, you were to pay council tax on the property ______ (address of property). Despite my prompt payment of rent, the council tax was not paid and arrears have now accrued. The council have made it clear that by law I am liable for these payments, despite our contractual agreement.


As such, if the arrears are not cleared with-in 7 days, I will deduct the sum of £XXX from the next rental payment, and there after deduct the sum of £YY(Y) per month to cover this payment.


Should you wish to discuss this with myself, please do so in writing.


Kind regards


MrINeedOfHelp.

MrINeedOfHelp

Pixie5740 wrote: »

Does the landlord have to prove to the tenants of an HMO that the council tax has indeed been paid (assuming you do in fact live in an HMO)? Couldn't you just phone up the council and check there is no council tax owing for the property?

I'm still confused as to what it is you are trying to achieve here. Your landlord wants to increase the rent. You don't want to pay the increased rent. The landlord can quite easily and legally have you evicted from the property with you footing the cost of the eviction if he has to go all the way to court and bailiffs. So what exactly are you trying to achieve with all this council tax malarkey?

The Council tax "malarkey" is a separate issue, rent is still being negotiated between us and the LL.

However in the meantime Brent have come out of nowhere and spoke to my partner about us as tenants being liable for council tax.

The list provided by G_M has the property we live in as an HMO and from what I am beginning to understand now makes the LL liable for council tax, Brent are trying to now say otherwise and I was merely asking for some sort of clarification of what the hell is going on.

MrINeedOfHelp

Guest101 wrote: »

here you have a slight problem. And we do the reasonable person test:


the problem is thus:
If this is a HMO, the LL is automatically liable for council tax, and so the council cannot force you to pay. You will therefore never be able to deduct it fromt he rent.


However if it is not a HMO, the LL is not liable by law. Your contract states 'bills included', council tax is not a typical 'bill', it's a tax. The reasonable person would, in my opinion, check whether this included council tax. If you therefore have it written anywhere (letter is best, but email would be better than nothing) that it is indeed included, then the LL has a contractual duty to pay. You could therefore, mitigate your losses, by deducting the council tax payment from the rent.


It would be reasonable to do so, as to avoid costly court action.


It would also be reasonable to write to the LL as thus:


Dear Mr/Miss/Mrs/Dr....


Please be advised that as per our tenancy agreement, you were to pay council tax on the property ______ (address of property). Despite my prompt payment of rent, the council tax was not paid and arrears have now accrued. The council have made it clear that by law I am liable for these payments, despite our contractual agreement.


As such, if the arrears are not cleared with-in 7 days, I will deduct the sum of £XXX from the next rental payment, and there after deduct the sum of £YY(Y) per month to cover this payment.


Should you wish to discuss this with myself, please do so in writing.


Kind regards


MrINeedOfHelp.

THANK YOU!!.

Would it be reasonable depending on the final outcome to serve this by both post (recorded) and email?

Guest101

MrINeedOfHelp wrote: »

THANK YOU!!.

Would it be reasonable depending on the final outcome to serve this by both post (recorded) and email?

Post (1st class mail) with proof of posting.


That's all you need.


Before you do that, come back and actually tell us what the council say. As you might get confused.


(the fact you keep saying flats, when they aren't flats, might be why the council think you are liable)

MrINeedOfHelp

Guest101 wrote: »

Post (1st class mail) with proof of posting.


That's all you need.


Before you do that, come back and actually tell us what the council say. As you might get confused.


(the fact you keep saying flats, when they aren't flats, might be why the council think you are liable)

I will try and call Brent myself tomorrow and refer them to their own list of registered HMO's and just explain on that basis Council Tax is LL's liability and not that of the tenant's.

Miss_Samantha

Hi MrINeedOfHelp,

Note that it is not possible to assign the liability to pay council tax onto someone else by contract.

G_M

Since the property is listed as HMO on Brent's on list of licenced HMOs, I would write to Brent Council Tax dept.

Yes, as with everything - write. Phoning them can lead to
a) mis-advice by an individual who answers
b) lack of evidence of what was said

A letter forces them to think seriously before replying so you get a more meanigful response. You also get time on receiving it to consider what to do next.

* Enclose a copy of their list with your letter, and highlight your property address.
* give the LL's name and address and explain that as the owner/ LL of the licenced address, all CT demands should be directed to him.
* ask for written confirmation that you are not liable for CT