Rent increase advice.

MrINeedOfHelp

Hi everyone.

This site usually gives great advice so thought I would give it a go, hopefully I will be able to explain it so everyone understands.

So moved into this property in March 2015 after signing a 6 month assured shorthold tenancy, this tenancy expired on the 20/08/15 and me and my partner from what I can gather are now effectively on a periodic tenancy as no new agreement has been signed.

On that note sadly with no written proof and only verbally we had been asking our landlord what was going on with our tenancy (before it expired) as there was a change ownership if you will regarding which company gets the rent, at one point the new landlord confirmed that he will be sitting down with the all tenants of remaining flats in building in January to go through signing a new agreement, sadly like I as this is was all verbal I can't prove otherwise.

I say that because a few weeks back we then get a notice to quit the property giving us until 20/01/16 to leave the property which in fairness he has given us plenty of notice and again from what I understand he given above the minimum required so there is no fault there and since we became periodic tenants he has every right to serve the notice.

What we have an issue with is that after serving us the notice we get a very basic email basically saying if you wish to sign a new agreement there will be an overall rent increase of £75 a month, we have since rejected this new increase and tried to negotiate a £50 a month increase on basis we understand rents typically go up after new agreements are signed however since we are having to get our internet provider, (all bills included in rent) as the current one is as good as having no internet during the evening and weekends that the increase should at least compensate for that.

So far the landlord has flat out rejected any negotiation and has since sent us the new agreement yesterday which has a start date of 20/08/15 and is expecting us to pay the new rent in two days time.

So hopefully this makes sense to some here and what I want to know is, since we have rejected the increase would I be ok in asking the landlord to serve us a Section 13 notice regarding his proposed new increase so I can then challenge the increase?

If yes I feel the landlord would hate this idea as from my basic understanding after doing some digging online via our local council and from what the landlord has already said to us verbally the flat we rent is part of a converted house containing other flats and has been set as C6 class property which I understand only allows up to a maximum of 6 occupants and this building has 9.

If someone could please give us some advice I would be eternally grateful.

[Deleted User]

I think you need to look at rent prices in the area. Is what the LL wants to charge reasonable? If not, then you could be better off moving.

However, then consider how much a move might cost, including LA fees. It might be more than the £25 a month you are disputing. If you want to move because the LL is getting on your nerves or there's something additional wrong with the flat, again, look at whether moving is worthwhile for you.

If it is reasonable for the area the above still applies. Be glad whatever you decide that you have had a property for a period at below market rates.

If you can't afford the rent increase then you may well be better of finding a cheaper area to live in.

HappyMJ

I really don't like landlords that entice you to take a property as it's being advertised at a low rate then increase the rent after 6 months. There's no need for it. It's not typical to increase rents every time you sign a new tenancy agreement.

Your individual flat could possibly have 6 occupants. 2 adults per room. Assuming it's a 2 bedroom flat that's 2 in each bedroom and 2 in the living room.

Children under 10 count as half a person and children under 1 do not count at all.

I'd be paying the original rent when due, refusing the increase and looking to move on before the 20th Jan 2016.

Guest101

MrINeedOfHelp wrote: »

Hi everyone.

This site usually gives great advice so thought I would give it a go, hopefully I will be able to explain it so everyone understands. - Stick to the basics. Long drawn out posts with large chunks of irrelevant information usually don't get as many replies.

So moved into this property in March 2015 after signing a 6 month assured shorthold tenancy, this tenancy expired on the 20/08/15 and me and my partner from what I can gather are now effectively on a periodic tenancy as no new agreement has been signed. - Correct, either contractual (check your tenancy) or statutory. (I assume this is in England)

On that note sadly with no written proof and only verbally we had been asking our landlord what was going on with our tenancy (before it expired) as there was a change ownership if you will regarding which company gets the rent, - Was it actually a change of ownership, or simply a new managing agent? Who is the named landlord? at one point the new landlord confirmed that he will be sitting down with the all tenants of remaining flats in building in January to go through signing a new agreement, sadly like I as this is was all verbal I can't prove otherwise. - Irrelevant.

I say that because a few weeks back we then get a notice to quit the property giving us until 20/01/16 to leave the property which in fairness he has given us plenty of notice and again from what I understand he given above the minimum required so there is no fault there and since we became periodic tenants he has every right to serve the notice. - A notice to quit (which has zero validity) or a s.21 notice?

What we have an issue with is that after serving us the notice we get a very basic email basically saying if you wish to sign a new agreement there will be an overall rent increase of £75 a month, we have since rejected this new increase and tried to negotiate a £50 a month increase on basis we understand rents typically go up after new agreements are signed however since we are having to get our internet provider, (all bills included in rent) as the current one is as good as having no internet during the evening and weekends that the increase should at least compensate for that. - If the service is provided, there is no obligation to compensate. You can choose to go above and beyond at your own expense.

So far the landlord has flat out rejected any negotiation and has since sent us the new agreement yesterday which has a start date of 20/08/15 and is expecting us to pay the new rent in two days time. - Simply ignore.

So hopefully this makes sense to some here and what I want to know is, since we have rejected the increase would I be ok in asking the landlord to serve us a Section 13 notice regarding his proposed new increase so I can then challenge the increase? - Why ask for anything at all? Simply ignore it.

If yes I feel the landlord would hate this idea as from my basic understanding after doing some digging online via our local council and from what the landlord has already said to us verbally the flat we rent is part of a converted house containing other flats and has been set as C6 class property which I understand only allows up to a maximum of 6 occupants and this building has 9. - How many 'official' occupants?

If someone could please give us some advice I would be eternally grateful.

For clarity, this is what would have helped:


Moved in 20th March 2015 (6 month AST) - England.
Landlord / managing agent changed. Served notice (quote the notice) for expiry 20/01/16
Has since offered a new tenancy, with a rent increase of £75.


Largely the rest of the information is irrelevant.

[Deleted User]

MrINeedOfHelp wrote: »

Hi everyone.

So far the landlord has flat out rejected any negotiation and has since sent us the new agreement yesterday which has a start date of 20/08/15 and is expecting us to pay the new rent in two days time.

Just to highlight this point for wiser heads than me, it appears the landlord is giving a rent increase with 2 days notice, and possibly even 3 months in arrears.

I think it has to be done one rent period (i.e. a month) in advance, and to take effect on the normal rent due day.

Pixie5740

What difference would it make if your landlord served a Section 13 for you to challenge? By the sounds of things he's already issued a Section 21 and providing he has done so correctly he can get you out the property fairly easily, rent increase or not. Does your original tenancy agreement say anything about rent increases?

Your landlord doesn't want to budge on the £75 increase so what you need to ask yourself is whether or not your current rent + £75 is in line with rents of similar properties in the area. If the answer is yes then you may as well stay put. If not find somewhere else to live and serve your own notice.

Dird

MrINeedOfHelp wrote: »

So far the landlord has flat out rejected any negotiation and has since sent us the new agreement yesterday which has a start date of 20/08/15 and is expecting us to pay the new rent in two days time.

Would this not make OP liable for "unpaid rent" if he signs it? Bank statements would show he's paid £75 less per month between August & now despite signing something that agreed a higher price from that date

MrINeedOfHelp

Guest101 wrote: »

For clarity, this is what would have helped:

Landlord / managing agent changed. Served notice (quote the notice) for expiry 20/01/16 -it does appear to be a Section 21 notice but the end date is set for the 21/01/16??

Stick to the basics. Long drawn out posts with large chunks of irrelevant information usually don't get as many replies.


If the service is provided, there is no obligation to compensate. You can choose to go above and beyond at your own expense.

Why ask for anything at all? Simply ignore it.

How many 'official' occupants? - Thanks again and in terms of official occupants everyone has their own tenancy agreements, since the landlord took over from the property managers they had in new tenants have been signed up for the year - all in There are is 1 couple on a years tenancy and 1 individual on a years tenancy everyone else like my partner and I, another couple and two other separate individuals are on 6 months/periodic tenancies

I have left updates there I hope that makes sense.

Thanks everyone.

G_M

Cherry_Gale wrote: »

Just to highlight this point for wiser heads than me, it appears the landlord is giving a rent increase with 2 days notice, and possibly even 3 months in arrears.

I think it has to be done one rent period (i.e. a month) in advance, and to take effect on the normal rent due day.

If the rent increase is done as part of a new tenancy agreement, then no.

No notice is required, as the tenant agrees the terms (including rent) of the new TA on signing it.

It can be dated to start on any date, past, present or future, that the two parties agree. The tenant can, of course, negotiate the terms of the new agreement, eg the start date, the rent etc.

Of course, if the tenant declines to sign, then the new tenancy agreement has no force, and therefore the existing agreement, including current rent, continues.

Since the LL has served a S21 Notice (apparantly, & assuming it's valid), the LL can seek possession in the normal way when that expires (20/1/16?). Till then, tenant ays current rent.

Tenant can choose to leave earlier subject to serving correct notice on the LL.

MrINeedOfHelp

So could some one just clarify even though there is a difference of day that teh s.21 notice giving us until 21/01/16 is right as rent is paid on the 20th of each month I thought that then means the notice would have to correspond with that?

Also as the property is a HMO and has 6 different tenancies albeit 3 are joint tenancies because of being couples the landlord is still liable to pay rent without any direct cost to the tenant, unless there is a clause in the agreements allowing for rent to be adjusted for when increases in council tax occurs?

I ask because the landlord offers bills included in which council tax is one of said bill

G_M

MrINeedOfHelp wrote: »

So could some one just clarify even though there is a difference of day that teh s.21 notice giving us until 21/01/16 is right as rent is paid on the 20th of each month I thought that then means the notice would have to correspond with that?


Also as the property is a HMO and has 6 different tenancies albeit 3 are joint tenancies because of being couples the landlord is still liable to pay rent without any direct cost to the tenant, unless there is a clause in the agreements allowing for rent to be adjusted for when increases in council tax occurs?

I ask because the landlord offers bills included in which council tax is one of said bill

Please reconfirm, with exact dates (and no extraneous wording):

1) date your original tenancy started
2) Term of original tenancy (eg '6 months') OR
3) end date specified on the original tenancy
4) whether your original tenancy agreement says what happens after the fixed term (exact words)
5) whether your original tenancy agreement says anything about notice (exact words)
6) Date you pay rent each month
7) date the S21 was served (received)
8) expiry date of S21 Notice

Note that the S21 does not have to align with either
* the tenancy date, or (if different)
* the date rent is paid
the S21 does have to give 2 full calender months notice (assuming SPT) and/or comply with any terms in the agreement (if CPT)

* The number of tenancies in the building is irrelevant.
* In a HMO, the landlord is always liable for Council Tax
* if the council tax increases, that is the LL's problem. He can only increase the rent in accordance with the law and the contract (see below)

* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

* Rent increases: when & how can rent be increased?