New VED from April 2017

Nasqueron

derrick wrote: »

Yes I know, but some people still say, "Road Tax doesn't exist", but strictly speaking it does, it is just now called VED, ( but not by all authorities), untill they decide to change the name again,

It was only last year that DVLA/GOV.UK where still calling the windscreen disc a Tax Disc, they still do so in relation to that piece of paper HERE for example:-

"Tax discs are no longer needed - the vehicle tax could be up to date even if it doesn’t have a tax disc."
"... if it’s taxed but not showing the tax disc. Only report a vehicle that’s either untaxed or..."

So again, until the authorities stop calling it "Road Tax/Vehicle Tax" it will still be seen,(quite rightly in my opinion), as TAX by Joe Public, after all it IS a TAX!

.

You lost the argument mate, don't keep digging. Nowhere in your post, despite the underling, does it refer to road tax. Only tax or vehicle tax. My VED renewal calls it vehicle tax not road tax because it is a tax on a vehicle, specifically the pollution it causes.

Road tax implies a tax to use the road or for the road (building/repair etc), the argument from the motorist is always "I pay my road tax, you don't so you shouldn't be on the road" but as VED goes into general tax like VAT, rather than going on the roads specifically, it is not a road tax, but rather a vehicle tax

Nasqueron

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Really? So "alcohol tax" implies the tax is gathered to provide beer? Income tax is used to create income?

It's a tax which is only applied to people who use vehicles on the road. Not for owning vehicles - as you would expect from something describe as "vehicle tax" - but for using them on the road.

So road tax is a clear and acceptable description regardless of what its official name is.

But it isn't - it's "vehicle tax" - a tax on your vehicle. "Road tax" doesn't work because there are plenty of cars that pay 0 VED (but have to register every year) so doesn't apply to people who use vehicles on the road.

We pay income tax - a tax on your income, capital gains tax - a tax on the gains you made, corporation tax - a tax on corporation earnings etc - all about what the tax comes from hence vehicle tax

Norman_Castle

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Really? So "alcohol tax" implies the tax is gathered to provide beer? Income tax is used to create income?

Most people understand what alcohol and income taxes are. Ask 20 people what VED is and many will incorrectly say it is a payment to fund or use the highways which it is not.

Iceweasel

It doesn't matter what a tax is called or what it is charged on - vehicles, fuel, or alcohol, it goes into the general tax fund to pay for nuclear weapons, military interventions, MPs' salaries, presidents' airplanes (sorry Prime Ministers' airplanes) and a few other incidental things like the NHS, schools, and DWP.

This is to be the first tax that I can recall that is to be 'ring-fenced' for a purpose closely related to what it was collected on.

The tax on tobacco for example does NOT go to fund cancer research or hospital treatment for smokers.

But this new VED system needs a load more modifications and amendments.

I can only repeat - as things stand at the moment, the duty or tax on vehicles collected from vehicle owners in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland is going to fund roads in England as from 2020.

There are obviously new rules and regs coming for those parts of the UK otherwise we will have a revolution - maybe not a bad thing.

Herzlos

frugal90 wrote: »

Apparently most of us will be paying £140 per year from April 2017 even if it's ma Panda or a Porsche. Only exempt cars will be zero m emission- cars with a new price of £40 k will pay extra for furst 5 years.

Which is bizarre, because new cars attract a new car tax @ about 20%, which will totally dwarf 5 yearly payment increases on ones 40k and over. Why not just bump up the purchase tax rate?

Iceweasel wrote: »

All vehicles registered before 1st April will continue with VED rates as now.

I foresee increased car sales in March 2017.

I can see a lot of people waiting (me included); If you buy in March you could be paying £495/year in tax, but if you buy in April it might only be £140/year, assuming your purchase price is under £40k?

Joe_Horner

Nasqueron wrote: »

But it isn't - it's "vehicle tax" - a tax on your vehicle. "Road tax" doesn't work because there are plenty of cars that pay 0 VED (but have to register every year) so doesn't apply to people who use vehicles on the road.

We pay income tax - a tax on your income, capital gains tax - a tax on the gains you made, corporation tax - a tax on corporation earnings etc - all about what the tax comes from hence vehicle tax

But "vehicle tax" works even less. I have 5 vehicles, only 2 of which - the ones I use on the road - are liable for this tax.

There is NO circumstance where the off-road ones become liable for it, whereas ones that "pay 0 ved" are still subject to VED - hence the need to register AND either "apply for tax" each year or declare SORN. The fact that the rate they currently pay doesn't stop them being liable for it.

Changing the rate so these cars pay more than £0 is an administrative task, applying a tax to vehicles never used on road would require new legislation.

Hence, the tax is predicated on the "road" part of "vehicle on road", NOT the "vehicle" part. That makes "road tax" a more accurate description than "vehicle tax". It is a tax for the use of the roads, which doesn't carry any inherent implication that it will be spent on them.

As I said in my first post, it's only the pedants who care - everyone else just uses common sense and accepts whatever term people use because we know what they mean.

The ironic part is that the pedants, in this case, are actually wrong in their pedantry because "road tax" is, demonstrably, a perfectly valid (if informal) description of it.

It makes those who insist on "correcting" the term at ever opportunity look really rather foolish

Herzlos

Yikes, if emissions are over 225g/km the first year tax will be £2000!

Question: The tax is just for the first year from registration? So would you be able to pre-register something super early and only tax it after 6/12 months to avoid it, or is it the first year of taxing?

I get that you'll probably be hit by more in depreciation than the £2k saving but there may be some ways round that (like registering it before it's delivered/built?).

I guess it means there's going to be a lot of demand for 1 year old cars with bigger engines.

King_Nothing

frugal90 wrote: »

Is this not a really backward step - then current graduated system works well?

I think the current system is rubbish and punitive, I have to pay £290 to use my car on the road, meanwhile someone else with a different car only has to pay £30 and could be doing three times the mileage that I'm doing.

I'm in favour of the new system that's coming in, although I do think the £40k thing is a bit punitive aswell though.

movilogo

New system is a good thing I'd say.

CO2 is good for environment. Without CO2 plants won't be able to photosynthesis and produce enough Oxygen for us.

So not enough CO2, we all die (as no O2).

Johno100

King_Nothing wrote: »

I think the current system is rubbish and punitive, I have to pay £290 to use my car on the road, meanwhile someone else with a different car only has to pay £30 and could be doing three times the mileage that I'm doing.

Ditto, I'm all for the cost being transferred to fuel, isn't the mantra 'the polluter pays'?