Cancelled school trip

zagfles

ladymarmalade wrote: »

Whilst I agree in principle, trips these days are all about managing risk and risk assessment. This is something else that schools will have to consider.

So assess the risk, objectively. How many kids have been killed in terrorist attacks while on a school trip? Compared with the number who are killed in car crashes, coach crashes etc?

Like I said before, recent terrorist attacks in Western cities have not targetting tourists, they've targeted residents. What reason do you have to believe a group on a visit would be in any more danger than a group of school kids on their way to school in that city?

If there was a terrorist attack in your town or city, would you move? Would you refuse to commute to work? Would you stop living? They didn't in London, and they're not in Paris.

Poppie68

zagfles wrote: »

So assess the risk, objectively. How many kids have been killed in terrorist attacks while on a school trip? Compared with the number who are killed in car crashes, coach crashes etc?

Like I said before, recent terrorist attacks in Western cities have not targetting tourists, they've targeted residents. What reason do you have to believe a group on a visit would be in any more danger than a group of school kids on their way to school in that city?

If there was a terrorist attack in your town or city, would you move? Would you refuse to commute to work? Would you stop living? They didn't in London, and they're not in Paris.

The threat 8 years ago wasn't as great as it is now, at least 2 more attacks in the Paris area were foiled, these where due to take place in the days after last Friday. Both very public areas the airport would being one would obviously not just be hosting the French. Terrorist attacks target a country not specifically the people,they have no moral compass so a group of school kids are as good a target as any.
Yes correct how many school kids on a trip have been killed in terrorist attacks versus accidents etc? Most probably none in the western world but that is down the number of actually attacks being minimal up until now.

missbiggles1

Poppie68 wrote: »

The threat 8 years ago wasn't as great as it is now, at least 2 more attacks in the Paris area were foiled, these where due to take place in the days after last Friday. Both very public areas the airport would being one would obviously not just be hosting the French. Terrorist attacks target a country not specifically the people,they have no moral compass so a group of school kids are as good a target as any.
Yes correct how many school kids on a trip have been killed in terrorist attacks versus accidents etc? Most probably none in the western world but that is down the number of actually attacks being minimal up until now.

NB
Not next February.;)

I wouldn't describe 17 in 10 years, in the EU alone, as minimal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_European_Union

Poppie68

missbiggles1 wrote: »

NB
Not next February.;)

I wouldn't describe 17 in 10 years, in the EU alone, as minimal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_European_Union

The threat is greater now than it was last week with the Military action taken in response to last Friday, this is not going to change in the next few months that's why the French Ministry are taking steps to extend the State of Emergency for the next 3 months, maybe longer.




I take your point on my "minimal" statement as throughout the western world there have been numerous attacks, when I was writing I was actually just thinking of France but stated further afield, France have had a number of small arm attacks as well as the Metro bombing but I think the deaths were only just in double figures. It's a whole new ball game now, they have dangerous home grown brainwashed fanatics who now have rich backers.



I don't scare easy I'm the wife of a 24 year Army vet but I certainly wouldn't be prepared to send my child on a school trips to France in the coming months or maybe years.

eDicky

An interesting article by the Director of International Security Studies at Rusi in London gives some perspective:

How vulnerable is Europe to Paris-style attacks?
By Raffaello Pantucci Royal United Services Institute (Rusi)

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34856349

Let's remember that a lot more terrorist plots are foiled by the security services than are successful, but we don't usually hear so much about them. Counter measures need to be effective every time, whereas the terrorists only need to succeed once to be effective. After this latest attack there will be increased funding and better collaboration for counter terrorism efforts, and perhaps finally the major powers are realising that their petty politicking has given far too much leeway to our common enemy and needs to end.

Meanwhile, in the hope that our major cities do not become so dangerous that our children need to be dispatched to the countryside as they were when the Nazis were bombing London, we should not overreact but continue to live and travel as normally as possible, according to the realistic circumstances. Greater border restrictions could damage commerce and depress the euro further, making continental holidays even cheaper for Brits, but personally I hope not.

Reversing the advance of the black flag is a much more difficult and complicated task than many people seem to realise. We all have a duty to stand firm, each in our own ways as appropriate.


EDIT - Also several well- balanced articles in this week's 'The Economist', including these:

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21678840-brussels-not-just-europes-political-and-military-capitalit-also-centre-its?cid1=cust/ednew/n/bl/n/20151119n/owned/n/n/nwl/n/n/n/n

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21678846-recent-attacks-are-uniting-russia-and-west-hatred-jihadists-new-alliance-emerges?cid1=cust/ednew/n/bl/n/20151119n/owned/n/n/nwl/n/n/n/n

Moto2

EDIT - Also several well- balanced articles in this week's 'The Economist', including these:

Don't you dare bring balanced analysis into this thread, it's all about knee-jerk hysterical reactions here

whitesatin

Moto2 wrote: »

Don't you dare bring balanced analysis into this thread, it's all about knee-jerk hysterical reactions here

We are only human, Moto2, with a sense of self preservation that goes along with that. I was less apprehensive but there you go.

I am changing my mind like the wind. Thankfully, at my stage in life, I don't have to make decisions for other people.

missbiggles1

Poppie68 wrote: »

The threat is greater now than it was last week with the Military action taken in response to last Friday, this is not going to change in the next few months that's why the French Ministry are taking steps to extend the State of Emergency for the next 3 months, maybe longer.




I take your point on my "minimal" statement as throughout the western world there have been numerous attacks, when I was writing I was actually just thinking of France but stated further afield, France have had a number of small arm attacks as well as the Metro bombing but I think the deaths were only just in double figures. It's a whole new ball game now, they have dangerous home grown brainwashed fanatics who now have rich backers.



I don't scare easy I'm the wife of a 24 year Army vet but I certainly wouldn't be prepared to send my child on a school trips to France in the coming months or maybe years.

But where do you stop, where do you expect to be safe - London? Edinburgh? Cardiff? Your home town?

The parents of the children who were killed in Norway by Anders Behring Breivik were on a summer camp in their own country, not unlike the PGL UK trip which has been presented by this school as an alternative, I expect parents thought they were safe there, but they weren't.

I'm pretty sure security precautions in Paris are going to be more rigorous than anything being put in place by PGL!

zagfles

Poppie68 wrote: »

The threat is greater now than it was last week with the Military action taken in response to last Friday, this is not going to change in the next few months that's why the French Ministry are taking steps to extend the State of Emergency for the next 3 months, maybe longer.




I take your point on my "minimal" statement as throughout the western world there have been numerous attacks, when I was writing I was actually just thinking of France but stated further afield, France have had a number of small arm attacks as well as the Metro bombing but I think the deaths were only just in double figures. It's a whole new ball game now, they have dangerous home grown brainwashed fanatics who now have rich backers.



I don't scare easy I'm the wife of a 24 year Army vet but I certainly wouldn't be prepared to send my child on a school trips to France in the coming months or maybe years.

You realise David Cameron is trying to persuade parliament we should join in with the bombing of IS in Syria? If/when he does, we'll be just as much of a target as the French.

So if France isn't safe for your kids, the UK won't be either. Have you got plans to emigrate?

leylandsunaddict

Poppie68 wrote: »

The threat 8 years ago wasn't as great as it is now, at least 2 more attacks in the Paris area were foiled, these where due to take place in the days after last Friday. Both very public areas the airport would being one would obviously not just be hosting the French. Terrorist attacks target a country not specifically the people,they have no moral compass so a group of school kids are as good a target as any.
Yes correct how many school kids on a trip have been killed in terrorist attacks versus accidents etc? Most probably none in the western world but that is down the number of actually attacks being minimal up until now.

And if our government is to be believed, the UK have foiled 7 attacks in the UK in the last 12 months.

There's going to be more armed police deployed to Manchester in the run up to Christmas, and anti terrorist police are helping train security around the Trafford Centre, Arndale Centre, Printworks, Old Trafford, Etihad etc etc. Will there be 1000s of children around those places. You bet your life there will. Will adults be avoiding them. No chance. We'll certainly be there tomorrow, and most weekends as usual, along with 1000s of others.

The risk to the UK will only increase even more if our 'esteemed' PM gets his way and we start bombing Syria. Then we really will be in the firing line, and we're already on the next to the highest terror alert. It's going to be something we just have to live with, unless people with children are planning to leave the UK?