Cancelled school trip

callum9999

joerugby wrote: »

I did read it Callum, and having done so I thought a direct link to the Guardian article might help inform the debate

It would probably inform the debate a lot better if you didnt completely misrepresent the article in your summary!

And now Brussels is on high alert, should we take it as a sign nowhere is safe and cancel all school trips, anywhere, forever?

jrtfan

The OP hasn't been back to the thread for a few days but, OP, if you should happen to pick this up, then PGL's Terms and Conditions, plus their insurance documentation, seem to be in the public domain - were you aware of this already and have you had a chance to read through everything? Only, you mentioned that PGL would only give you limited information over the phone because their contract was with the school, not you personally, so perhaps you would find some of the answers on their website instead - just a thought?

I won't publish any direct links here because I haven't read through the T&Cs for use of PGL's website and it might not be permitted. But I googled pgl teacher booking terms and conditions northern france and pgl school trip insurance 2016 teacher, each of which provided separately links to all the information you might need.

My apologies if you have done this already.

nwc389

I've posted earlier in the thread but I'll say it again
I think the OPs gripe is that the cancellation was done without consulting the parents
The alternate holiday that was booked WITHOUT CONSULTATION is just so different , the parents booked a school trip that was positioned as a cultural experience in a city that is known for its art , museums , beautiful buildings and gardens
The alternate holiday is a trip to an outdoor activities centre in the uk in February.
I don't think the OP was griping about the fact it was cancelled but was unhappy it was done without consultation and the alternate holiday was really no alternative at all .
I can understand the school worrying and plainly some parents would not have wanted to send their children on the trip , also teachers/ helpers might not want to go but paying for Paris and being offered an activity break or lose your money is like paying for a fish and chip supper and being given a cold rice salad !!

jrtfan

nwc389 wrote:

I've posted earlier in the thread but I'll say it again
I think the OPs gripe is that the cancellation was done without consulting the parents
The alternate holiday that was booked WITHOUT CONSULTATION is just so different , the parents booked a school trip that was positioned as a cultural experience in a city that is known for its art , museums , beautiful buildings and gardens
The alternate holiday is a trip to an outdoor activities centre in the uk in February.
I don't think the OP was griping about the fact it was cancelled but was unhappy it was done without consultation and the alternate holiday was really no alternative at all .
I can understand the school worrying and plainly some parents would not have wanted to send their children on the trip , also teachers/ helpers might not want to go but paying for Paris and being offered an activity break or lose your money is like paying for a fish and chip supper and being given a cold rice salad !!

Yes, you're right. But they ended their post by saying:

Martok wrote: »

Could anyone tell me exactly were we the parents and guardians stand in this situation? Are the school obliged to refund the full amount as they cancelled not us?

so that's what my post was trying to help with.

Or were you responding to something else and I've just got my wires crossed?

nwc389

jrtfan wrote: »

Yes, you're right. But they ended their post by saying:



so that's what my post was trying to help with.

Or were you responding to something else and I've just got my wires crossed?

I was kind of responding to all the stuff about cowardly teachers and arguments over what was safe etc . Sadly I don't think the OP has much chance of getting their money back as the contract is between the school and the company . It's just a shame that the school didn't take the time to think things through properly .

callum9999

nwc389 wrote: »

I was kind of responding to all the stuff about cowardly teachers and arguments over what was safe etc . Sadly I don't think the OP has much chance of getting their money back as the contract is between the school and the company . It's just a shame that the school didn't take the time to think things through properly .

There's a contract between the school and PGL but it's the contract between the parent and the school that's relevant. If the parent booked a holiday that the school hoped to take place in Paris but gave no guarantee then they lose the deposit. If the contract states it WILL be in Paris then I'd personally say the school breached the contract and is liable for any loss of deposit.

Poppy9

callum9999 wrote: »

There's a contract between the school and PGL but it's the contract between the parent and the school that's relevant. If the parent booked a holiday that the school hoped to take place in Paris but gave no guarantee then they lose the deposit. If the contract states it WILL be in Paris then I'd personally say the school breached the contract and is liable for any loss of deposit.

I'll say for the umpteenth time the school does not exist as an entity with money to reimburse parents for such breaches of contract.

School's funding comes from LEA and it can only legally spend it on educating pupils. It cannot legally spend it on compensating parents for any contracts it breaches. School have no other source of income unless it has private benefactors donating to it.

The school would have to ask the LEA to fund any compensation. Given cuts to LA funding it's doubtful they would be very helpful as they don't have the money.

If school's insurance doesn't cover then all parents of pupils of the school should be asking where they got the money from to refund parents.

Moto2

Poppy9 wrote: »

I'll say for the umpteenth time the school does not exist as an entity with money to reimburse parents for such breaches of contract.

Given that, you'd think they've had a bit of a consultation with those affected before before deciding to cost others money.

leylandsunaddict

Poppy9 wrote: »

I'll say for the umpteenth time the school does not exist as an entity with money to reimburse parents for such breaches of contract.

School's funding comes from LEA and it can only legally spend it on educating pupils. It cannot legally spend it on compensating parents for any contracts it breaches. School have no other source of income unless it has private benefactors donating to it.

The school would have to ask the LEA to fund any compensation. Given cuts to LA funding it's doubtful they would be very helpful as they don't have the money.

If school's insurance doesn't cover then all parents of pupils of the school should be asking where they got the money from to refund parents.

Whether it can or cannot refund the deposits because of the constraints put on it is not the parents problem. It is the schools problem. Someone decided to cancel the trip. These supposedly educated people didn't even have the common sense to consult the parents who were paying for the trip, and then they expect them to just throw £110 down the drain. Unless the agreement/contract the parents signed stated specifically that the school could cancel the trip without consulting the parents but still keep the deposits, then the school are in the wrong. They will have to find a way to deal with it, and fix it. Maybe the person/people who decided to cancel it could refund out of their own pockets, and then perhaps that may teach them you cannot just decide to throw other peoples money away!

It would be great if we could all sell things, take a deposit and then just change our minds but keep the deposit anyway.

I would agree to pay to send my child to Paris in February, but I certainly would not agree to pay to send them to an outdoor activities centre in the UK. The teachers are supposed to be educated but it would appear that in that particular school they have some big gaps in their general common sense.

Poppy9

Moto2 wrote: »

Given that, you'd think they've had a bit of a consultation with those affected before before deciding to cost others money.

You would wouldn't you! Maybe they thought they were covered by insurance and subsequently found out they weren't.

TBH though I'm not sure consultation would have resolved the situation. There will be parents who would not have wanted their children to travel and would have been prepared to lose deposit. The issue is though with these trips they need minimum number to run a trip so even just a handful pulling out and not paying any more than the deposit would have meant the trip could not go ahead.

leylandsunaddict wrote: »

Whether it can or cannot refund the deposits because of the constraints put on it is not the parents problem. It is the schools problem. Someone decided to cancel the trip. These supposedly educated people didn't even have the common sense to consult the parents who were paying for the trip, and then they expect them to just throw £110 down the drain. Unless the agreement/contract the parents signed stated specifically that the school could cancel the trip without consulting the parents but still keep the deposits, then the school are in the wrong. They will have to find a way to deal with it, and fix it. Maybe the person/people who decided to cancel it could refund out of their own pockets, and then perhaps that may teach them you cannot just decide to throw other peoples money away!

It would be great if we could all sell things, take a deposit and then just change our minds but keep the deposit anyway.

I would agree to pay to send my child to Paris in February, but I certainly would not agree to pay to send them to an outdoor activities centre in the UK. The teachers are supposed to be educated but it would appear that in that particular school they have some big gaps in their general common sense.

However aggrieved you might feel you have not made any reasonable suggestion as to how the refunds are funded.

If the head cancelled the trip because 1 teacher pulled out and no replacement found then technically it's not his fault as it's a voluntary activity and he cannot compel a member of staff to attend.

If head cancelled because a few parents had expressed concern and did not want their children to travel, again not his fault.

It will only take 1 head in 1 school personally refunding money to have a ripple effect that will effectively end school trips in schools across the country if they cannot get insurance for these eventualities.

I agree the situation is not satisfactory but it is what it is and I believe the outcome would have been the same even if head consulted as there will be parents who will not want their children to travel and reduced numbers may mean trip can no longer go ahead or the parents who wish to continue with trip have to pay substantially more and they may not be able to afford.