Apple update ruined phone

Buzby

grumbler wrote: »

Is it just a phone or a car that requires a licence to drive?
Surely you know better:

1 - A phone has a software licence to use. So what obscure point are you trying to make.

2 - There IS no inherent issue that bricks phones - if there was we'dve all heard about it ad nauseum. There is of course issues where owners mistakenly interrupt the process and this can cause problems, just how will you make them take the blame for that?

3 - As for Apple 'admitting blame' yes right! I can almost guarantee they said no such thing. Indeed, it stretched incredulity so much I doubted this was a real enquiry. That, or the OP misunderstood what was happening.

Yes - let's wait for this magical letter where Apple accept all blame for the handset fault which someone failled to upgrade correctly - that'll be a first. :rotfl:

grumbler

Buzby wrote: »

1 - A phone has a software licence to use. So what obscure point are you trying to make.

Not really.
For a car this would be a road tax, not a driving licence - a fee for using the car regardless of the skills.
To drive a car both the tax and the licence are needed, not the tax alone.

prowla

I have to say that I have found Apple to be quite good in dealing with issues.

prowla

grumbler wrote: »

Not really.
For a car this would be a road tax, not a driving licence - a fee for using the car regardless of the skills.
To drive a car both the tax and the licence are needed, not the tax alone.

Hmmm, but the road tax is to a 3rd party, so maybe road tax is more like the phone operator's charges...
..or maybe the licence to use all of the car manufacturers innovations and intellectual rights are included in the cost of the item...

...otoh, maybe the phone/car analogy just plain doesn't map out.

Buzby

Well you raised the issue of licencing - and I still fail to see even a remote relevance to someone bricking their phone. A handset has no relevance to any service received - clearly it could work on one network and not another, but then this has nothing to do with Apple, it would be relevant to any manudacturer. Firmware upgrades are always the responsibility of owner, as is bricking the handset - unless it affected the bulk of users doing the same upgrade directly. It remains a modification so invalidates SOGA in the strictest terms, but would not rule out a goodwill swap, which in this case would be O2's responsibility, not Apple.

Indeed, when phone faults are found Apple's first step is to run a factory reset to clear any rogue apps that might be causing a problem. Only when a factory reset clears out the carp and the issue is still present (non-working camera or lacklustre haptic motion are two that happened to me) I got by swap out promptly.

Sure, I'm within 50 miles of 3 Apple Stores, the nearest 3 miles away, but I don't mind paying extra for the high levels fo support they provide.

grumbler

What I am saying is that a phone isn't a car (jet fighter, ocean liner etc.) and doesn't require special skills to operate it. If it can be easily 'bricked' by an inexperienced user (so that even manufacturer's experts can't help with reviving it) during a routine update (often forced by the manufacturer) then it's manufacturer's fault. Not that I am saying that it's really the case for iPhones and Apple. It was you who said this.
And it was an elderly user, not some teenager geek experimenting with his phone.

WellKnownSid

Well, given that you can't completely brick any modern smartphone with an update - it does point to a hardware fault. The software update thing is just a red herring.

SOGA - O2 is responsible. Don't accept what the call-centre droids say... Yes, your Dad is in a contract - but so too are O2. Works both ways.

prowla

Buzby wrote: »

Well you raised the issue of licencing - and I still fail to see even a remote relevance to someone bricking their phone. A handset has no relevance to any service received - clearly it could work on one network and not another, but then this has nothing to do with Apple, it would be relevant to any manudacturer. Firmware upgrades are always the responsibility of owner, as is bricking the handset - unless it affected the bulk of users doing the same upgrade directly. It remains a modification so invalidates SOGA in the strictest terms, but would not rule out a goodwill swap, which in this case would be O2's responsibility, not Apple.

Indeed, when phone faults are found Apple's first step is to run a factory reset to clear any rogue apps that might be causing a problem. Only when a factory reset clears out the carp and the issue is still present (non-working camera or lacklustre haptic motion are two that happened to me) I got by swap out promptly.

Sure, I'm within 50 miles of 3 Apple Stores, the nearest 3 miles away, but I don't mind paying extra for the high levels fo support they provide.

I would not say that updates invalidate guarantees, as you are using the product in accordance with the makers policies and guidance. Indeed, not updating could leave you more vulnerable to rejection, especially in a security compromise where the manufacturer has issued an update to address a known issue.

Buzby

Not wishing to be argumentative, but a firmware update TOTALLY removes the right of a SOGA return. I assume you've updated your own phone's firmware and read the T&C's where they state the action of doing so remains your own responsibility.

As for a previous poster saying it is impossible to brick a handset with a firmware update - you can, indeed I have 2 that are just not worth the effort, as after 4 hours of intensive resusitation it was impossible reanimate.

By all means, take your phone into Apple for the update - if it fails, it is their responsibility to fix the issue.... but not after the event.

grumbler

What T&C?
If you mean O2 T&C of sale, they say nothing about this:

• Bought anything on our online shop? These terms and conditions are worth a read.

If you mean the Pay Monthly Mobile Agreement , then it says the opposite:

12.7 You are responsible for ensuring that your Equipment is compatible with the Services you have taken from us, and has the necessary software updates and installations required in order to access the Services.

The SoGA says nothing about this either.