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UKPC appeal

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Comments

  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,751 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Here's an excellent example of how one poster dealt effectively and comprehensively with a PPC's Evidence Pack. I'm sure this will give you plenty of ideas on how to handle your case.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/67385911#Comment_67385911

    And another one to consider.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=67402366&postcount=26

    And a further one.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/13uLICVZ13MeT7Q_4qzJUIyAn-jtVJUIVeCaaINpI2U8/mobilebasic

    Please note, some of these examples are now a little dated in the context of the fast moving world of private parking, so you need to be careful about blindly copying and pasting anything that 'looks good', and especially in the context of Beavis. But they do provide an insight into how to make a start on your rebuttal.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • NateR
    NateR Posts: 26 Forumite
    Do you think there's anything I have to be worried about? As UKPC haven't even mentioned anything to argue a GPEoL or prove that they have landowner authority, should I now be in the clear?

    I'm going to write an e-mail tonight, but I don't have a whole lot to say except demonstrate UKPC's incompetence (the PCN copy being wrong, the page that seems to be somebody else appeal, and the strange photos).

    The photos of their signs that they have provided in daylight are a lot clearer (clearly taken with a better camera and more care), but of course that doesn't make any excuses for them being unlit and unreadable at night.
  • NateR
    NateR Posts: 26 Forumite
    Case file response

    I write further to receiving the case file from UKPC on 18.12.15, and I respectfully request this appeal be upheld based on the following

    • UKPC have failed to provide evidence that the charge is a genuine pre-estimate of loss

    • UKPC have failed to provide evidence that they have landowner authority

    • I maintain my stance that the signage was in breach of the BPA Code of Practice, and that the daytime photos they have provided are not a fair representation of the unlit signs at night.

    • On the e-mail I received from UKPC containing the case file were 2 other e-mails that explain the delay in me receiving the case file. These e-mails were dated 10.12.15 and 15.12.15 showing that the case file was sent to ‘XXX’. This is not my e-mail address and raises serious concerns over my personal data and who may now have access to it. This case file includes very sensitive information, including my address.

    • Page 4 of the case file shows a ‘copy’ of the Parking Charge Notice (PCN). This is an inaccurate representation of the PCN that I received. Everything appears to have been made ‘neater’ – as my PCN shows the location as “XXX”. My copy of the PCN also shows the time as HH:MM, not HH:MM:SS and everything else just appears to have been formatted a lot better for the case file. I would attach a copy of the PCN to these comments, however I cannot see the option to do so.

    • Page 16 is a complete mystery to me. From the photos and text on this page, it appears to form the part of somebody else’s appeal. I must stress that this is NOT something that I have submitted to UKPC and again brings into question how UKPC are handling people’s data and the competence of the company. It appears they have shown as much care to the data as they have to scanning it for submission for the case file (skewed images).

    • Page 22 is an image that I cannot recognise. The large ‘47’ on the red background is not something that appears in the other images they have provided. Given some of the other images they have provided show a large ‘15’, I would presume this to be a completely different unit, and as such irrelevant to this case.


    Thoughts? The more I think about it, the more I am also irritated by the way that UKPC have handled not only my personal data - but also the information that somebody else has submitted for an appeal, for them to somehow include it in my case file. Does anybody have any suggestions on who I could report UKPC to for this?
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,751 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Opening caveat - I've not read back through your entire thread, so I'm commenting in isolation based on your rebuttal draft above.

    I'd put the lack of landowner authority as your opening shot; relegate GPEOL to the final point. Where the PPC has not submitted a copy of the landowner's authority, POPLA has been upholding the appeal. Give it to them first - allow them to get it over with quickly!

    Do you have your own photos of the signs by night? Can you get them (without flash)? If so, attach them as your proof. Presumably your parking incident was during the hours of darkness?

    After this is all over I'd be sending a written complaint to the DVLA (with copies of the Evidence Pack as proof) about the mishandling of your personal data.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 155,513 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    ' I maintain my stance that the signage was in breach of the BPA Code of Practice, and that the daytime photos they have provided are not a fair representation of the unlit signs at night. In their evidence, it is shown from the signage pictures that, even in daylight, it is impossible to read before parking (before the alleged contract begins) the amount of the parking charge notice. It is hidden in small print in a very wordy sign, yet it is extremely pale and white - illegible, in fact. This is nothing like the 'large, prominent and legible' signs where 'the charge is prominently displayed in large letters' as was found to be the case in ParkingEye v Beavis. This is not 'adequate' notice of the parking charge, as required by the BPA CoP and as required by 2(3) of Schedule 4 of the POFA. '
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • NateR
    NateR Posts: 26 Forumite
    Thank you for both your help. I have submitted my rebuttal, however POPLA limit you to 2000 characters, and doesn't allow you to include any attachments. This is quite frustrating and makes me feel at a bit of a disadvantage, however hopefully we're now close to the end of this matter.
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,751 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Does it offer you the option to email this to them? If so put a note to that effect on the web portal, stating that your rebuttal exceeds the maximum permitted number of characters and ask them to confirm safe receipt of the email and attachment. Be prepared to call them if you don't get confirmation soon.

    Important: Make sure your rebuttal and email contain all the unique identifying details to your case, like POPLA verification code, car's VRM, PCN reference number, date of alleged contravention, your name and address.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 155,513 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    NateR wrote: »
    Thank you for both your help. I have submitted my rebuttal, however POPLA limit you to 2000 characters, and doesn't allow you to include any attachments. This is quite frustrating and makes me feel at a bit of a disadvantage, however hopefully we're now close to the end of this matter.
    Why did you do that? You should have emailed it.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Feral_Moon
    Feral_Moon Posts: 2,943 Forumite
    NateR wrote: »
    Thoughts? The more I think about it, the more I am also irritated by the way that UKPC have handled not only my personal data - but also the information that somebody else has submitted for an appeal, for them to somehow include it in my case file. Does anybody have any suggestions on who I could report UKPC to for this?

    From what you've written above can I deduce that you received your PCN on a certain industrial estate behind the leisure complex in Cambridge?

    I also received similar images and mistakes in my evidence pack from UKPC and the signage photos taken at unit 47 are in a completely different part of the estate at the other end.

    I'm still waiting on a decision by POPLA from an appeal I submitted back in September.
  • NateR
    NateR Posts: 26 Forumite
    Umkomaas wrote: »
    Does it offer you the option to email this to them?

    There wasn't the option to e-mail them, and by submitting it through POPLA on the field they offer with the limited characters, it has now pushed my appeal on to the 'POPLA Assessment' stage. Admittedly I could have just wrote in the field that I would be e-mailing my appeal.
    Feral_Moon wrote: »
    I'm still waiting on a decision by POPLA from an appeal I submitted back in September.

    @Feral Moon, I have tried to PM you but it says you do not allow this. I would be interested in discussing this further with you though. September seems like a long drawn out process, yikes.
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