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Cannot change supplier because of smart meter
weakpassword
Posts: 21 Forumite
in Energy
We moved into a place with Utilita billing the energy, and soon the decent gas meter "broke" when we tried to use the emergency credit one day.
Utilita refused to replace it with anything but a smart meter, and only after speaking to the engineer did we realise they were also trying to replace the electric meter too! They got no permission to do that and so just messed up the install of the gas smart meter, installing it but not turning it on. Utilita had to provide a huge code to type in, after about 30 minutes in their phone queue, the emergency line. Great first interaction with this lot....
Anyway, we have just tried to change supplier, to a company called E. They told us we could not switch to them because of the smart meter. Utilita confirmed they will not swap their POS for an open and interoperable meter, and so basically we are now locked into Utilita. Or at least we cannot move to our preferred billing company. Is this really what the smart meter legislation is meant to be used for?
What should I do? Try OFGEM? I was thinking just apply to switch again and if they refuse again ask for the refusal and why to be put in writing. But what to do with that? Speak to OFGEM, Utilita? Or a solicitor? They'll do 30mins for free and if one of these companies is doing wrong then the cost of the solicitor can be sent to the wrong-doer (plus the costs incurred from not being able to switch - being stuck on an uneconomic tariff). Perhaps complain to Utilia with knowledge of what will be said, so just ask immediately for a dead-lock letter and off to the Ombudsman? We have formally complained about the smart-meter only non-option in the past and so really the 8 weeks the industry lapdog will want has already passed, I can just co-opt the old complaint (and there was my cynicism making me think my attitude to the smart meter was cynical, but it turns out it was wrong to have it fitted all along).
/start communiqu!, this is just some-what (more) of a rant.
These smart meters are about industry wanting to shift risk onto their customers. Billing companies are meant to buffer fluctuations in wholesale energy costs to the end-users, but if they get their fluctuation predictions wrong it hits their pocket. By convincing us to accept smart meters (with cute cartoon imagery, deceit about the environment, appeals to laziness, appeals to fashion, the other tools in the PR/ads toolbox) they can push that risk onto us. Us lot who are not experts on the wholesale energy market, and having worked for the UK nuclear biz I can tell you they seem to keep their finance stuff more secure and private than the nuclear stuff! Energy billing companies, of course, will not stop adding a percent (as much as they can) for the connection and now highly variable unit cost. People on lower incomes will end up choosing not to do things at certain times of day, it would be like some of society having to live with rolling blackouts. New appliances, that enable the most to made of the smart meter infrastructure, will only be affordable by the top of society. But even then the appliance manufactures will rip-people off: there will be non-interoperable systems, incompatibilities, and the artificial product "upgrade" treadmill, where protocols will be tweaked to lock-out older appliances. Trying to figure these things out to bypass their restrictions will likely be a civil or criminal act, too.
So anyway, smart meters are not ever going to be tolerated in this house. If it means moving supplier to an expensive one for a while, then fine. If it means getting a hooky gasman to replace the meter then I claim to be a new tenant and the meter was like this when we moved in, and no, I don't why the National Grid database has the wrong details, then perhaps fine, too.
/end communiqu!
PS On the phone to Utilita the agent agreed that the energy market should not be all carved up with lots of companies creaming off a slice, that it should be centralised and not run for profit.
PPS The text replacement on this site is a bit nuts. Komunikay above has been spelled correctly by me, with an accent on the final e (a use for dead keys. Type altgr-; then a vowel), but the site is replacing it with an exclamation mark.
Utilita refused to replace it with anything but a smart meter, and only after speaking to the engineer did we realise they were also trying to replace the electric meter too! They got no permission to do that and so just messed up the install of the gas smart meter, installing it but not turning it on. Utilita had to provide a huge code to type in, after about 30 minutes in their phone queue, the emergency line. Great first interaction with this lot....
Anyway, we have just tried to change supplier, to a company called E. They told us we could not switch to them because of the smart meter. Utilita confirmed they will not swap their POS for an open and interoperable meter, and so basically we are now locked into Utilita. Or at least we cannot move to our preferred billing company. Is this really what the smart meter legislation is meant to be used for?
What should I do? Try OFGEM? I was thinking just apply to switch again and if they refuse again ask for the refusal and why to be put in writing. But what to do with that? Speak to OFGEM, Utilita? Or a solicitor? They'll do 30mins for free and if one of these companies is doing wrong then the cost of the solicitor can be sent to the wrong-doer (plus the costs incurred from not being able to switch - being stuck on an uneconomic tariff). Perhaps complain to Utilia with knowledge of what will be said, so just ask immediately for a dead-lock letter and off to the Ombudsman? We have formally complained about the smart-meter only non-option in the past and so really the 8 weeks the industry lapdog will want has already passed, I can just co-opt the old complaint (and there was my cynicism making me think my attitude to the smart meter was cynical, but it turns out it was wrong to have it fitted all along).
/start communiqu!, this is just some-what (more) of a rant.
These smart meters are about industry wanting to shift risk onto their customers. Billing companies are meant to buffer fluctuations in wholesale energy costs to the end-users, but if they get their fluctuation predictions wrong it hits their pocket. By convincing us to accept smart meters (with cute cartoon imagery, deceit about the environment, appeals to laziness, appeals to fashion, the other tools in the PR/ads toolbox) they can push that risk onto us. Us lot who are not experts on the wholesale energy market, and having worked for the UK nuclear biz I can tell you they seem to keep their finance stuff more secure and private than the nuclear stuff! Energy billing companies, of course, will not stop adding a percent (as much as they can) for the connection and now highly variable unit cost. People on lower incomes will end up choosing not to do things at certain times of day, it would be like some of society having to live with rolling blackouts. New appliances, that enable the most to made of the smart meter infrastructure, will only be affordable by the top of society. But even then the appliance manufactures will rip-people off: there will be non-interoperable systems, incompatibilities, and the artificial product "upgrade" treadmill, where protocols will be tweaked to lock-out older appliances. Trying to figure these things out to bypass their restrictions will likely be a civil or criminal act, too.
So anyway, smart meters are not ever going to be tolerated in this house. If it means moving supplier to an expensive one for a while, then fine. If it means getting a hooky gasman to replace the meter then I claim to be a new tenant and the meter was like this when we moved in, and no, I don't why the National Grid database has the wrong details, then perhaps fine, too.
/end communiqu!
PS On the phone to Utilita the agent agreed that the energy market should not be all carved up with lots of companies creaming off a slice, that it should be centralised and not run for profit.
PPS The text replacement on this site is a bit nuts. Komunikay above has been spelled correctly by me, with an accent on the final e (a use for dead keys. Type altgr-; then a vowel), but the site is replacing it with an exclamation mark.
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Comments
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Did Utilita come back with a price to remove their Secure Liberty smart prepayment meter ?. As far as I can see only Ovo can support that meter in prepayment mode so they make it difficult or expensive to ever move supplier. I can t seem to get them to come out with a price to switch back to a normal prepay meter. I ve seen £100 quoted to be rid of their meter.Its not in their terms and conditions how much they charge. Maybe you can get Utilita to switch you to credit meter mode with much cheaper tariffs. I ve been told that Eon will support the Secure Liberty meters as credit metersweakpassword wrote: »We moved into a place with Utilita billing the energy, and soon the decent gas meter "broke" when we tried to use the emergency credit one day.
Utilita refused to replace it with anything but a smart meter, and only after speaking to the engineer did we realise they were also trying to replace the electric meter too! They got no permission to do that and so just messed up the install of the gas smart meter, installing it but not turning it on. Utilita had to provide a huge code to type in, after about 30 minutes in their phone queue, the emergency line. Great first interaction with this lot....
Anyway, we have just tried to change supplier, to a company called E. They told us we could not switch to them because of the smart meter. Utilita confirmed they will not swap their POS for an open and interoperable meter, and so basically we are now locked into Utilita. Or at least we cannot move to our preferred billing company. Is this really what the smart meter legislation is meant to be used for?
What should I do? Try OFGEM? I was thinking just apply to switch again and if they refuse again ask for the refusal and why to be put in writing. But what to do with that? Speak to OFGEM, Utilita? Or a solicitor? They'll do 30mins for free and if one of these companies is doing wrong then the cost of the solicitor can be sent to the wrong-doer (plus the costs incurred from not being able to switch - being stuck on an uneconomic tariff). Perhaps complain to Utilia with knowledge of what will be said, so just ask immediately for a dead-lock letter and off to the Ombudsman? We have formally complained about the smart-meter only non-option in the past and so really the 8 weeks the industry lapdog will want has already passed, I can just co-opt the old complaint (and there was my cynicism making me think my attitude to the smart meter was cynical, but it turns out it was wrong to have it fitted all along).
/start communiqu!, this is just some-what (more) of a rant.
These smart meters are about industry wanting to shift risk onto their customers. Billing companies are meant to buffer fluctuations in wholesale energy costs to the end-users, but if they get their fluctuation predictions wrong it hits their pocket. By convincing us to accept smart meters (with cute cartoon imagery, deceit about the environment, appeals to laziness, appeals to fashion, the other tools in the PR/ads toolbox) they can push that risk onto us. Us lot who are not experts on the wholesale energy market, and having worked for the UK nuclear biz I can tell you they seem to keep their finance stuff more secure and private than the nuclear stuff! Energy billing companies, of course, will not stop adding a percent (as much as they can) for the connection and now highly variable unit cost. People on lower incomes will end up choosing not to do things at certain times of day, it would be like some of society having to live with rolling blackouts. New appliances, that enable the most to made of the smart meter infrastructure, will only be affordable by the top of society. But even then the appliance manufactures will rip-people off: there will be non-interoperable systems, incompatibilities, and the artificial product "upgrade" treadmill, where protocols will be tweaked to lock-out older appliances. Trying to figure these things out to bypass their restrictions will likely be a civil or criminal act, too.
So anyway, smart meters are not ever going to be tolerated in this house. If it means moving supplier to an expensive one for a while, then fine. If it means getting a hooky gasman to replace the meter then I claim to be a new tenant and the meter was like this when we moved in, and no, I don't why the National Grid database has the wrong details, then perhaps fine, too.
/end communiqu!
PS On the phone to Utilita the agent agreed that the energy market should not be all carved up with lots of companies creaming off a slice, that it should be centralised and not run for profit.
PPS The text replacement on this site is a bit nuts. Komunikay above has been spelled correctly by me, with an accent on the final e (a use for dead keys. Type altgr-; then a vowel), but the site is replacing it with an exclamation mark.0 -
If you don't have any debt and want to save money move to another supplier and pay by dd. Utilia will have to switch your meter into credit mode when you leave. They are lying if they say you cannot switch unless you have a debt.IT Consultant in the utilities industry specialising in the retail electricity market.
4 Credit Card and 1 Loan PPI claims settled for £26k, 1 rejected (Opus).0 -
Utilita have constantly refused to change the meter back to a plain one, there has been no hint it can be done for a payment. They have referenced legislation, business policies, the contract, anything to try and stick to mal-meters only.
In many ways I would prefer to be on pre-pay, it is easier to budget. It parallels using cash for everything (it can be part of that), being forced to use physical objects really makes you think about the usage. We also never know what our money situation will be in the future, whilst a looming bill might be OK now, when it arrives things can have changed. If I am feeling flush more credit gets put on, and whilst I have only stooped to ~2quid top-ups a few times it has happened. If I only had 2 quid to my name and a bill arrived it would not be nice. Pre-pay just steps around a whole debt-stress possibility.
To be fair if the choice is just a few players then there is something fundamentally wrong. Indeed I am sure we should be able to change biller without restriction, and if that means some biller has to pick up the cost of the incompatibilities then that is great. I'm gonna call E again and ask for the application to be refused in writing.0 -
weakpassword wrote: »Utilita have constantly refused to change the meter back to a plain one, there has been no hint it can be done for a payment. They have referenced legislation, business policies, the contract, anything to try and stick to mal-meters only.
In many ways I would prefer to be on pre-pay, it is easier to budget. It parallels using cash for everything (it can be part of that), being forced to use physical objects really makes you think about the usage. We also never know what our money situation will be in the future, whilst a looming bill might be OK now, when it arrives things can have changed. If I am feeling flush more credit gets put on, and whilst I have only stooped to ~2quid top-ups a few times it has happened. If I only had 2 quid to my name and a bill arrived it would not be nice. Pre-pay just steps around a whole debt-stress possibility.
To be fair if the choice is just a few players then there is something fundamentally wrong. Indeed I am sure we should be able to change biller without restriction, and if that means some biller has to pick up the cost of the incompatibilities then that is great. I'm gonna call E again and ask for the application to be refused in writing.
Utilitas attitude is as far I m concerned, sharp practice, by virtually locking you into their supply by refusing to refit a standard meter. They re quick to offer the free smart prepay but make it very hard to move away once you re locked in. Ovo do exactly the same thing. You could move over to Ovo (collecting cashback ) and see if they re more obliging. When they advertise their free smart meters they don t detail what happens if you don t get on with it and want it out. If the automatic credit function fails you may have to manually add credit and it seems that a 40-60 digit code has to be imput ( at the right speed )to be successful.Just try doing that if you re eyesight is nt too good.
I think an ombudsman complaint is justifiable against Utilita and Ovo. This can be done 8 weeks after the original complaint. It would be interesting to hear what they say about these two suppliers and their free smart meters.0 -
Switch to one of the big 6, they can't object to the switch and the new supplier one take any cr*p from them about not being able to set the meter into credit mode.IT Consultant in the utilities industry specialising in the retail electricity market.
4 Credit Card and 1 Loan PPI claims settled for £26k, 1 rejected (Opus).0 -
Switch to one of the big 6, they can't object to the switch and the new supplier one take any cr*p from them about not being able to set the meter into credit mode.
I believe the OP wishes to use prepayment meters.None of the big 6 will support the Secure Liberty meter in its prepayment mode. Only Ovo use it in prepay mode0 -
In which case they will swap it for an industry supported meter.sacsquacco wrote: »I believe the OP wishes to use prepayment meters.None of the big 6 will support the Secure Liberty meter in its prepayment mode. Only Ovo use it in prepay modeIT Consultant in the utilities industry specialising in the retail electricity market.
4 Credit Card and 1 Loan PPI claims settled for £26k, 1 rejected (Opus).0 -
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To all those thinking about utilita prepayment meters, think again. They are a nightmare as they are not industry standard as used by most/all other energy companies.
Utilita sales staff commonly target possible low income areas with claims of cheaper gas/electric.
Its your choice...
I think once your signed up with them there is at least a 1 possibly 2 year contract??Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..0 -
So should the new supplier have to bear the cost of a new meter because Utilita want to lock the OP into supply?
The new supplier have to meet legislation to provide customers with accurate bills, sharp practice from Utilita but i blame the powers that be not enforcing energy companies/meter making Smart meters independent, whats the point in having a brand new smart meter if it doesn't operate at full capacity with a new supplier.
In response to the OP i would switch to one of the big 6 on a tariff with no exit fee, get your meter changed, which they should do asap as they cannot support the Utilita meter and then you can switch to your preferred supplier. Very unfair but the only way to get out of your current predicament0
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