Main Ten.. Evicted, all Personal ITEMS with Mine a LODGER Cleard Out in Storage!

AdrianC

Indeed. It most certainly isn't theft - there is not the slightest shred of any evidence of "intent to permanently deprive" the OP of their property.

The landlord is between a rock and a hard place on the property return, too - they have no way of knowing if you, OP, are being honest in which items you say are yours and which you say are your former housemate's. The ONLY way to deal with it is to get the former housemate involved, and both go through the contents together.

Of course, by doing so, the former housemate has to reveal their contact details, getting themselves landed with the results of their debt. They may very well be quite happy to abandon a pile of relatively worthless stuff and do a runner...

Guest101

AdrianC wrote: »

Indeed. It most certainly isn't theft - there is not the slightest shred of any evidence of "intent to permanently deprive" the OP of their property.

The landlord is between a rock and a hard place on the property return, too - they have no way of knowing if you, OP, are being honest in which items you say are yours and which you say are your former housemate's. The ONLY way to deal with it is to get the former housemate involved, and both go through the contents together.

Of course, by doing so, the former housemate has to reveal their contact details, getting themselves landed with the results of their debt. They may very well be quite happy to abandon a pile of relatively worthless stuff and do a runner...

Or it's been going on for months, so the tenant knew and took everything of value anyway.


It could be that the OPs expensive items are in a pawn shop other side of the country.


The LL is just as innocent as the OP though, and so working together seems best.

AdrianC

nidO wrote: »

The owner's solution (and I fully appreciate that the owner is between a rock and a hard place here just as much as the OP) is all very reasonable upto the point that they contact the tenant and the tenant then says "no don't give them anything, all that stuff's mine".
The owner is then taking the OP's stuff without their permission, refusing to give it back to the OP, and instead giving it to someone else. How's that not theft?

That would be theft, yes. By the former housemate, who DOES have that intent to permanently deprive the OP of their goods.

The landlord is happy to return them to their rightful owner, but doesn't know who that is, so has no such intent.

nidO

AdrianC wrote: »

The landlord is happy to return them to their rightful owner, but doesn't know who that is, so has no such intent.

Except, since when in the eyes of the law does the landlord become the person who gets to unilaterally decide on ownership of property?

His solution is only reasonable up to the point that it actually works, his backstop of deciding that his ex-tenant is ultimately the decider in who stuff in the property belongs to isn't valid, and (as Guest101 has pointed out in his highlighting) as the landlord has now been made aware of a dispute, he can't claim innocence in handing over the OP's stuff to the tenant on the tenant's sole say-so.

AdrianC

nidO wrote: »

Except, since when in the eyes of the law does the landlord become the person who gets to unilaterally decide on ownership of property?

His solution is only reasonable up to the point that it actually works, his backstop of deciding that his ex-tenant is ultimately the decider in who stuff in the property belongs to isn't valid,

I can't see that he has any choice to do anything else. He has been contacted by somebody - previously completely unknown to him - who makes a claim that he has no way of substantiating. He is holding what he can only safely believe are his tenant's goods, and he would be negligent in handing them over to somebody else purely on their say-so.

and (as Guest101 has pointed out in his highlighting) as the landlord has now been made aware of a dispute, he can't claim innocence in handing over the OP's stuff to the tenant on the tenant's sole say-so.

Indeed. He would be negligent, to varying degrees, in handing them over to EITHER person without further evidence - but the ex-tenant has the stronger claim as far as he is concerned, as they can only be presumed to be the tenant's without further evidence.

Which is why I said...

AdrianC wrote:

The ONLY way to deal with it is to get the former housemate involved, and both go through the contents together.

They need to sort it out amongst themselves in front of the landlord or their agent. A letter from the tenant should be good enough, but it could later be claimed to be a forgery.

The OP has been taken for a thorough ride by their former housemate, and the difficulties haven't ended yet. If the OP has no way of proving their story, then they are reliant on the ex-housemate stepping forward and being responsible, which they've proved so far that they're not always capable of doing.

Guest101

The OP would still retain the option of going to court, it's just sensible to deal with the LL direct.


And really would form part of any pre-action protocol.

blueangel-99

I need to thank every one that has given all sorts of Legal Advice to me on this matter, as already mentioned, there are positive results coming out of all this for me. I did respond to the Landlord's email and gave him as much details I have on his rent dodging tenant, ie her Email Address, Mobile Phone Number and Her Work Place Details.


This is the email the Landlord Sent to the Tennant, See Below




Dear MR **** to me,





For your information, I have sent an email and a text to Ms ****. The opening paragraph of the email is as follows:





I have been contacted by Mr ****, who is understandably keen to have his possessions returned to him. These include clothing, and two laptops, one HP and one Dell. Since I am holding the contents of the flat on your behalf, I need your permission to return these items to him. Please give me your written consent within 24 hours and I will make the necessary arrangements. I do not see any reason to make Mr ***** suffer for the dispute between you and me.





I will let you know as soon as I receive a response.





Regards,





******




Now, I have the Dodging Tennant actually calling me wanting to Talk to me!!! Wow!! Seems that has worked!! She sent me a few Texts, saying she has not been able to sort her Finance Affairs and Sorry for this Trouble but will be calling me in a few Hours to have a good chat with me!!

libf

This is not legal advice. This is the opinion of a bunch of strangers on the internet. Some of it is good, some of it is bad. Remember that.

blueangel-99

Closing Update, got an email from L/L wanting to arrange for me to get my belonging but wants me to pay Cost?? See below:




Dear Mr *****,





Ms **** has given her consent to my returning your possessions to you. The problem now is actually physically doing so.





The contents of the wardrobe are in a lock-up storage facility in Reading. The contractors who cleared the flat can probably find your things fairly easily, as I believe they were all placed in a single suitcase. They merely have to remember which one. There will be some costs involved, which I assume you will pay and then recover from Ms *****





The laptops are more difficult as I took them away with me so that I could guarantee their safe-keeping. They are in my home in Chester.





I know from experience that sending laptops by courier is very expensive, and in addition there is some risk. However, I am prepared to dispatch them that way if you will pick up the costs and accept the risk. Alternatively, I could meet you in the Chester area anytime this weekend. If you don't wish to drive that far, another option would be for us to meet in the Warwick area next Friday afternoon (13/11) as I will be there on business.





Please confirm that the laptops and the clothing are the only items that need to be returned to you, and let me know how you would like to proceed.





Regards,


*******

Guest101

LL being reasonable.


Costs can be (in theory) recovered from Ms. XXX