Main Ten.. Evicted, all Personal ITEMS with Mine a LODGER Cleard Out in Storage!

blueangel-99

Update, I did report this Matter as Theft to the Police, got a Crime Reference Number but they are Adamant that it is Purely a Civil Matter and can not do much about it! This is really annoying as my options seems to be dwindling in getting back my property.

ognum

blueangel-99 wrote: »

Update, I did report this Matter as Theft to the Police, got a Crime Reference Number but they are Adamant that it is Purely a Civil Matter and can not do much about it! This is really annoying as my options seems to be dwindling in getting back my property.

Got to the land registry site download the details of the property which will give you the name and address of the Landlord.

Make contact with him/her and talk!

blueangel-99

More Updates, after the Legalistic Email I sent to the Agent for the Flat yesterday, this was forwarded on to the Landlord who then chose to email me directly: see the email below:




Dear MR ******,





I am the owner of 19 ****. The eviction of Ms *** followed a lengthy legal process which culminated on Tuesday in my gaining repossession of the property. This was done in the presence of a court-appointed bailiff, and was conducted entirely correctly and in full compliance with all legal requirements.





Ms ***** was forbidden by contract to sub-let the property. You have no contractual relationship with me or ****, and whatever arrangement you had with Ms **** was not permitted according to the legally-binding agreement that she had signed. I have spoken to my solicitor and have been advised that your attempt to characterise my actions as theft are completely baseless, and the police will confirm that to you in due course. Nevertheless, I recognise that you are an innocent victim in this situation and I am prepared to help you, providing that does not compromise my legal position with respect to Ms ******.





Your request to have your property returned to you presents me with both a practical and a legal problem. Firstly, when the property was cleared, we quite reasonably assumed that it all belonged to Ms ****. Hence it was all boxed-up and placed into storage without labelling. This means that it would be difficult to separate your possessions from those belonging to Ms *****.





From a legal point of view, I am required by law to keep the contents of the property safely 'for a reasonable length of time' to allow the tenant to contact me and arrange for their return. I must therefore protect myself from a situation in which I hand over some of the items to a person who is completely unknown to me. As you will understand, if Ms ***** subsequently claimed that those items were hers, I would have placed myself in a very difficult position.





Here's what I suggest. If you would send me Ms ****'s contact information, including the name and address of her employer, her email address and her mobile phone number, I will inform her that I intend to hand-over certain items to you. If she does not object to that action within, say, 24-hours, we can discuss the practical details of how to proceed. Furthermore, I will need some proof from you that you are the lawful owner of the items.





I look forward to hearing from you.





Regards,

**********

ognum

blueangel-99 wrote: »

More Updates, after the Legalistic Email I sent to the Agent for the Flat yesterday, this was forwarded on to the Landlord who then chose to email me directly: see the email below:




Dear MR ******,





I am the owner of 19 ****. The eviction of Ms *** followed a lengthy legal process which culminated on Tuesday in my gaining repossession of the property. This was done in the presence of a court-appointed bailiff, and was conducted entirely correctly and in full compliance with all legal requirements.





Ms ***** was forbidden by contract to sub-let the property. You have no contractual relationship with me or ****, and whatever arrangement you had with Ms **** was not permitted according to the legally-binding agreement that she had signed. I have spoken to my solicitor and have been advised that your attempt to characterise my actions as theft are completely baseless, and the police will confirm that to you in due course. Nevertheless, I recognise that you are an innocent victim in this situation and I am prepared to help you, providing that does not compromise my legal position with respect to Ms ******.





Your request to have your property returned to you presents me with both a practical and a legal problem. Firstly, when the property was cleared, we quite reasonably assumed that it all belonged to Ms ****. Hence it was all boxed-up and placed into storage without labelling. This means that it would be difficult to separate your possessions from those belonging to Ms *****.





From a legal point of view, I am required by law to keep the contents of the property safely 'for a reasonable length of time' to allow the tenant to contact me and arrange for their return. I must therefore protect myself from a situation in which I hand over some of the items to a person who is completely unknown to me. As you will understand, if Ms ***** subsequently claimed that those items were hers, I would have placed myself in a very difficult position.





Here's what I suggest. If you would send me Ms ****'s contact information, including the name and address of her employer, her email address and her mobile phone number, I will inform her that I intend to hand-over certain items to you. If she does not object to that action within, say, 24-hours, we can discuss the practical details of how to proceed. Furthermore, I will need some proof from you that you are the lawful owner of the items.





I look forward to hearing from you.





Regards,

**********

This seems a practical and well considered solution. Why don't you get on and work it out now you have a response.

kellaree

Firstly ,I am very sorry that this has happened to you!


Secondly, his response sounds fairly reasonable, I appreciate what he's saying about giving you stuff that could be hers but surely there is some legal recourse over the fact he took objects that weren't his tenants??

Do you have the tenants contact details though? Surely, she is a slippery character and might be hard to find.

Nobbie1967

Sounds pretty reasonable, particularly as it looks like you accused them of theft. Why not go along with their suggestion?

G_M

blueangel-99 wrote: »

Hi G_M,


Thanks for your information, I have written the Agent an email in line with what you said here. Thanks once more.

Errrr.... seems you didn't!

I have spoken to my solicitor and have been advised that your attempt to characterise my actions as theft are completely baseless,

I referred you to Torts (Interference with Good) Act 1977 . I certainly did not mention theft! His solicitor is correct and you have alienated him.....

His concerns are justified in that he has a duty to both of you to protect, and return, your respective possessions.

His suggestion therefore seems sensible. Either get together with your immediate landlord and arrange to jointly collect your possessions, or do as he suggests.

If your immediate LL has vanished, I would write back explaining that, and suggest that the property owner wait, say, 7 or 10 days to give his tenant time to make contact regarding her possessions, and then allow you to take yours. You may need to negotiate on how long to wait.

mgarl10024

You've also got to feel slightly sorry for the Landlord here (as well as the OP). Sounds like he's had a rotten tenant, has rent arrears to chase/swallow, has the hassle of dealing with Ms. X's property, and now has to try to help out the OP.

nidO

Nobbie1967 wrote: »

Sounds pretty reasonable, particularly as it looks like you accused them of theft.

I fail to see what's unreasonable in this claim.

As the owner has pointed out, no contract exists between the OP and the owner but equally, this whole repeated business of "not allowed to sub-let" is irrelevant because the tenant in the middle had a lodger, they weren't subletting, which is different. While this may well also have been prohibited, the owner appears not to appreciate the difference.

While this means the OP has no right to remain in the property or have any claim over it, they do have the right to not have someone totally unknown to them with no relationship to them take all their possessions, put them somewhere unknown to the OP, and refuse to return said possessions if someone else, who also doesn't own the things, objects, or the OP can't prove they're theirs.

The owner's solution (and I fully appreciate that the owner is between a rock and a hard place here just as much as the OP) is all very reasonable upto the point that they contact the tenant and the tenant then says "no don't give them anything, all that stuff's mine".
The owner is then taking the OP's stuff without their permission, refusing to give it back to the OP, and instead giving it to someone else. How's that not theft?

Guest101

blueangel-99 wrote: »

More Updates, after the Legalistic Email I sent to the Agent for the Flat yesterday, this was forwarded on to the Landlord who then chose to email me directly: see the email below:




Dear MR ******,





I am the owner of 19 ****. The eviction of Ms *** followed a lengthy legal process which culminated on Tuesday in my gaining repossession of the property. This was done in the presence of a court-appointed bailiff, and was conducted entirely correctly and in full compliance with all legal requirements. - Completely true. You should point out you agree it was completely legal, but you were not aware of the situation.





Ms ***** was forbidden by contract to sub-let the property. - You should point out you were not sub letting, you were a lodger, explain subletting involves letting out the whole property. You have no contractual relationship with me or ****, and whatever arrangement you had with Ms **** was not permitted according to the legally-binding agreement that she had signed. - Agree partly. Up until the point of the LL gaining possession there was no relationship. However under the http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/32 Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977, there is now a legal relationship. I have spoken to my solicitor and have been advised that your attempt to characterise my actions as theft are completely baseless, and the police will confirm that to you in due course. - Why did you accuse him of theft. Apologise and explain that in the heat of the moment and having slept in your car you were very upset, but took it out on the wrong party. Nevertheless, I recognise that you are an innocent victim in this situation and I am prepared to help you, providing that does not compromise my legal position with respect to Ms ******. - Explain that it does not, explain Ms. XXXX has no legal ownership of the goods you seek to recover.





Your request to have your property returned to you presents me with both a practical and a legal problem. Firstly, when the property was cleared, we quite reasonably assumed that it all belonged to Ms ****. Hence it was all boxed-up and placed into storage without labelling. This means that it would be difficult to separate your possessions from those belonging to Ms *****. - Explain that you can identify key items by description prior to viewing, and that other items will be easily identifiable via the size of garment and the gender it is suited towards. Whilst you completely understand the practical problems with this, point out the legal position is that these goods are yours and must be returned. However explain that as both of you are innocent parties in this, it would be best to discuss the matter on friendly terms.





From a legal point of view, I am required by law to keep the contents of the property safely 'for a reasonable length of time' to allow the tenant to contact me and arrange for their return. - Point out the goods must be kept reasonably safe until the rightful owner makes contact. I must therefore protect myself from a situation in which I hand over some of the items to a person who is completely unknown to me. As you will understand, if Ms ***** subsequently claimed that those items were hers, I would have placed myself in a very difficult position. - Accept this position and offer to provide 1: identification and proof of permanent address. 2: as much proof as is reasonably possible. 3: a statement signed and witnessed for the goods which you take, claiming ownership and providing the LL with evidence that is no longer in possession of them.





Here's what I suggest. If you would send me Ms ****'s contact information, including the name and address of her employer, her email address and her mobile phone number, I will inform her that I intend to hand-over certain items to you. If she does not object to that action within, say, 24-hours, we can discuss the practical details of how to proceed. - Agree to do so, however explain that regardless of her position, as she may decide to be awkward to spite either or both of you, the goods remain yours. Explain as you have notified him of a dispute, he should not hand over any goods to Ms. XXXX without confirming ownership. And as you have suggested goods might be yours, he should check with you, in order to cover himself too. Furthermore, I will need some proof from you that you are the lawful owner of the items. - Explain that you will provide as much proof as is reasonably possible. Include a list of good you can think of and explain that there may be some smaller items which you cannot name directly, but the goods of reasonable value are thus.





I look forward to hearing from you.





Regards,

**********

Thank the LL for his or her understanding and ask if you might contact him via his mobile, give him your mobile number.