School Holiday Fines

ezglide1450

We are planning on a family holiday which with 8 of us rakes some organising at the best of times
My daughter has 3 children 2 at primary school and has been refused permission by the head teacher despite them having very high attendance records
I am prepared to accept a penalty notice if that's the only option though it seems unfair however can anyone tell me if it is discriminatory to fine 'both parents' when presumably a single parent would only have to pay one fine per child ? Surely this is discrimination against 2 parent families ?
Are there any legal precedents on this ?

Spendless

ezglide1450 wrote: »

We are planning on a family holiday which with 8 of us rakes some organising at the best of times
My daughter has 3 children 2 at primary school and has been refused permission by the head teacher despite them having very high attendance records
I am prepared to accept a penalty notice if that's the only option though it seems unfair however can anyone tell me if it is discriminatory to fine 'both parents' when presumably a single parent would only have to pay one fine per child ? Surely this is discrimination against 2 parent families ?
Are there any legal precedents on this ?

Even in single parent households the NRP has been fined on some occasions. Here's a link where 3 adults were fined for the same child.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/07/11/mps-warn-of-term-time-holiday-confusion-as-up-to-three-family-me/

Jlawson118

I'm 20 now but I can remember going on holiday during term time when I was in primary school. My head teacher always praised it and said that learning about different cultures and countries was very educational. Although my parents themselves realised it was wrong to take me out during high school as those were really important years. We did still travel in the Summer holidays up until I was around 13.

But when talking about learning different cultures, my grandparents over the years became friends with the head chef of the hotel who married one of the waitresses. They had a baby together and invited us many miles away to their family home and town, and I think I was about 12 at this point, but it was fascinating to me, it was really quite educational learning that the country was poor and. Actually being there is a lot better than sitting in a classroom learning about it.

maman

As has been said, both parents can be fined even if they're not together.

On the wider issue, it sounds like there's no exceptional reason for going in term time so the fines would be justified.

The cultural reasoning is spurious as almost all cultural experiences are still there in August so going in term time isn't justified either.

AFAIK the court case for the father who is challenging the 'regular attendance ' wording of the regulations hasn't been decided yet. It could be that until that's clarified the Local Authority will be reluctant to take your DD to court especially as it looks bad to be spending public money so the Isle of Wight situation is something of a test case.

Spendless

maman wrote: »

As has been said, both parents can be fined even if they're not together.

On the wider issue, it sounds like there's no exceptional reason for going in term time so the fines would be justified.

The cultural reasoning is spurious as almost all cultural experiences are still there in August so going in term time isn't justified either.

AFAIK the court case for the father who is challenging the 'regular attendance ' wording of the regulations hasn't been decided yet. It could be that until that's clarified the Local Authority will be reluctant to take your DD to court especially as it looks bad to be spending public money so the Isle of Wight situation is something of a test case.

That's exactly the issue. The Government hasn't defined what 'exceptional circumstances are' and has left it to each local authority to decide. Consequently some have decided that parents not being able to get time off in school hols is exceptional, some haven't. Some have said attending a wedding abroad is exceptional others haven't. My own council used to say that a holiday being recommended by a health professional as recuperation from a physical or emotional trauma was an exceptional circumstance and they have now decided it isn't. And so it goes on. I'm only glad my youngest is already in yr9 and doing her GCSE coursework. These are the years that I expected to be restrictive when it came to holidays anyway and then I'm out of this madness. For the rest of you with younger children I hope this chaos is sorted.

springdreams

Jlawson118 wrote: »

I'm 20 now but I can remember going on holiday during term time when I was in primary school. My head teacher always praised it and said that learning about different cultures and countries was very educational. Although my parents themselves realised it was wrong to take me out during high school as those were really important years. We did still travel in the Summer holidays up until I was around 13.

But when talking about learning different cultures, my grandparents over the years became friends with the head chef of the hotel who married one of the waitresses. They had a baby together and invited us many miles away to their family home and town, and I think I was about 12 at this point, but it was fascinating to me, it was really quite educational learning that the country was poor and. Actually being there is a lot better than sitting in a classroom learning about it.

I've had no difficulty taking my son to different countries for holidays during the usual allocated school holidays .... he still managed to learn about different countries and cultures, despite it not being term time

maman

Technically it's the head teacher of the individual school that has to make the decision especially as many schools, like academies, are independent of Local Authorities. I'm sure many LAs offer guidelines and in the IOW case it's the LA that has brought the case to court.

I have some sympathy with health reasons as I wouldn't expect a headteacher to go against medical advice but weddings don't have to be in term time and children have 6 holiday periods a year so it would be unusual for none of those to be acceptable to an employer.

Spendless

maman wrote: »

Technically it's the head teacher of the individual school that has to make the decision especially as many schools, like academies, are independent of Local Authorities. I'm sure many LAs offer guidelines and in the IOW case it's the LA that has brought the case to court.

I have some sympathy with health reasons as I wouldn't expect a headteacher to go against medical advice but weddings don't have to be in term time and children have 6 holiday periods a year so it would be unusual for none of those to be acceptable to an employer.

But the child attending has had no say over the wedding date chosen by the bride and groom.

Also of the 6 holiday periods there are, 3 are a week long (and 2 of them in the colder months), which restricts where you can go. My own workplace doesn't allow time off from Mid December until early January, the no holidays time period for me last year directly corresponded with the dates my children finished and went back to school. There's also a 'one off at a time' rule where I work (office of 4 inc me). Multiply these sort of restrictions to every working parent of a school aged child and you can see the issues being caused.

FBaby

Technically it's the head teacher of the individual school that has to make the decision especially as many schools, like academies, are independent of Local Authorities

Indeed, I took out DS out of school -an academy now- for 8 days last Autumn. I'd book the holiday 12 months earlier and got my dates wrong (thought it would be 5 days missing which is what is allowed by the LA).

I wrote a letter to the school, explained my error, but said that I accepted responsibility and would pay the fine. I never received one and DS report which was sent a couple of weeks ago actually stipulates that his attendance was excellent! He has not had a sick day this year (or the year before I believe), never been late and is one of the top 5 pupils in his year.

maman

As far as weddings are concerned then I'd expect if it was close family then the bride and groom would consider the situation for those with school age children. If it's not close family then you could politely refuse.

Obviously from what you've said it's not easy for all parents to take holidays out of term time but it's not insurmountable. There's plenty of culture around in winter and places that are warm when it's cold here. And there is no rule that you have to have a holiday every year.

Experience tells me that the main reason is nothing to do with any of these things just putting saving money first.