Frank Field's proposals for 'tweaking' tax credits cut

andrewmp

Mersey wrote: »

Baroness Meacher has laid the motion on the Order Paper for Monday. It would delay the implementation until consideration is given to the IFS study. The Govt would not therefore be able to implement the WTC cuts in April 2016.

Will it really delay it that long?

Mersey_2

Yes, there are now 3 motions laid in the Lords, all of which would prevent the April 2016 implementation.


The proposed reforms will also be debated in the Commons from a cross Party group who have signed the Order Paper, including David Davis MP, Frank Field MP et al.


DC & GO seem to think some form of Constitutional outrage will be performed if the Lords vote against the WTC changes.


But as Lord Tebbit said, they won't be rejecting a Finance Bill, as the Govt didn't include the changes as a clause in a Bill.


The Govt wrongly included them in a Statutory Instrument which can't be amended and very little time was left for debate.

_CC_

I think the changes will go through. The commons have voted on it twice, haven't they?

In terms of the politics of it, maybe Osborne will do something in the Autumn statement, such as quicken the NLW increases and/or the personal tax allowance so they have a bit more cover.

Mersey_2

_CC_ wrote: »

I think the changes will go through. The commons have voted on it twice, haven't they?

In terms of the politics of it, maybe Osborne will do something in the Autumn statement, such as quicken the NLW increases and/or the personal tax allowance so they have a bit more cover.

The Commons haven't yet had a chance to vote on it as a specific clause after a debate. There was an SI and then a Labour motion attaching the Govt.

DC & GO stating that they have had the chance twice, seems to only have further annoyed 30 of their own MPs.


The Lords rejecting - ie delaying for a year - the measure, will, however give the Commons the chance to decide whether to reject or accept the Lords' suggestion.


Yes, GO's officials are said to be busily looking up the consequences of the various alternatives proposed by Frank Field, the IFS, Baroness Meacher etc.


As Frank Field said - as with the abolition of the 10p income tax band - "HM Treasury refused to give way until the 11th hour and even then merely spat out, almost vomited money all over the place to try to mitigate the changes, without conceding that they were actually wrong."

_CC_

Mersey wrote: »

T

Yes, GO's officials are said to be busily looking up the consequences of the various alternatives proposed by Frank Field, the IFS, Baroness Meacher etc.

According to who? The Treasury seem to be pretty adamant from what I've seen, and the political commentators, presumably with decent sources, seem to back this.

Boris Johnson may be genuinely concerned, but he clearly has political capital to be gained by going against a potentially unpopular move, given his leadership ambitions. Tory's in marginal seats are understandably concerned, too. But as Labours motion showed, they have enough support.

We'll soon see, anyway.

Mersey_2

According to BBC Assistant Political Correspondent, Frank Field MP & Stephen McPartland MP.


Labour's Motion was bound to fail as it was a Labour Motion attacking the Govt.


That does not, however, equate to a Govt automatically winning a vote on their proposals next month. [A vote in the Commons will have to take place to reverse any of the Lords' votes]


It would only take 7 Tories voting in agreement with a Lords' motion - or more likely a dozen or so abstaining, for the Govt to lose the vote. (When the Govt won by 25 - 35 votes, 100 MPs didn't vote as it wasn't thought to be a close outcome).


Any of the Lords' motions could defeat the Govt quite easily by 100 votes, as Labour, LibDems, Crossbenchers, Bishops and a dozen Tory Peers all oppose the plans.

Becles

There's going to be a back bench debate this Thursday as follows:

"That this House calls on the Government to reconsider the effect on the lowest paid workers of its proposed changes to tax credits due to come into force in April 2016, to carry out and publish an analysis of that effect, and to bring forward proposals to mitigate it."

Mersey_2

The Government has been defeated by 30 votes in the House of Lords.


Ind Peer, Baroness Meacher's amendment was passed. This delays any changes to Tax Credits until the Govt considers the proposals' impact and the IFS study.

Mersey_2

The Government has also lost a second motion (Baroness Hollis), this time by 17 votes.


This stops any changes in April and protects current WTC claimants for 3 years.

MABLE

I'm sure a lot of people will be jumping up and possible down with delight but the fact remains that the chancellor will have his day but making cuts in other areas to balance the books. So I would not get too excited yet people.