Seller lied on property questionaire - Electrical fire

sean1989_2

Well some updates:

1. Insurers are looking into claim ( still )
2. Conveyance team - Had response stating sellers have no knowledge of work etc etc
3. Estate Agents - Confirmed no other offer was removed or other survey complete
4. Independent Solicitor on misrepresentation:
Now this is the entire point i have been trying to prove all along - but hearing it from a solicitor that deals with misrepresentation should clear this up for all of us.

He basically was a blunt as you would expect a solicitor to be, not interested in any sob story, just wanting facts and figures.

Explained to him:
1. Questionnaire stated no electrical work
2. Electrical and gas work completed on property in 2009 - invoice as evidence
3. Electricians report on the condidition of the consumer unit and additions of electrical wiring
4. Fire caused due to faulty wiring etc

He asked -
1. Survey done?......No.....
2. Any malpractice by companies?.... Not that they have admitted
3. have you got every bit of paperwork?.... Yes

Solicitor response ( ill do this in reverse )
4. The defence would simply state that the fire was a fault and not becase of the "botched" jobs
3. The defence would simply state you have changed the wiring

Then it gets a little interesting...
2 and 1 - You could easily bring forward a case of misrepresentation and claim costs + damages from the previous sellers, you have paperwork as evidence ie. Document stating "no electircal work completed" and an invoice stating " electrical work completed" He said with a house it is "buy what you see" however you are bringing a case of misrepresentation, not a case of " im not happy with the house." The idea of misrepresentation is that you are accusing someone of lying and thus entering a contract with them which included the lie. The result - Costs + Damages and compensation *

However,

take into consideration,
1. The costs to win the case
2. Damages ONLY relating to the repairs
*3. Compensation may not be rewarded as you were negligent yourself by not completing checks
4. Obtaining payment from the defendent.

He mentioned that if the damage was more severe - such as partly burnt house - house burning down- then the case would yield much better results as the repair cost would simply be much higher and you may have been at risk of injury - to which he responded was anyone injured? i said no. he said "i see"

He further said that the home insurance should cover the cost of the rewire and if they dont you may wish to find out why but ultimately i can instruct him and send him all the paperwork and discuss how the case will be funded. I said i would get back to him.

OVERALL
So... I feel that (as previous posters have mentioned) the financial reward for winning the case would not be beneficial considering this guy may charge a small fortune and should i choose to take them to court myself - would probably get eaten alive by a defence lawyer.

Still.... i hope this does bring in to light that although a survey wasnt done - a lie on the questionaire could still come and bite you. I suppose in a way - both us and the seller were fortunate in the sense that - the house didnt suffer much damage and it only requires a rewire.

The solicitor did also mention that the insurance company in theory could hire one of their "solicitors" to investigate - however because they are all fresh out of school and dont know what they are doing would probably get knowhere ( he actually had a chuckle at himself for that )

Ultimately - i hope this proves valuable to FTBs

1. GET A BLUMIN SURVEY NO MATTER WHAT - NO MATTER WHAT
2. Yes you can bring a case of misrepresentation for a lie on a questionnaire regardless of your involvement - but it clearly may affect the final payout from the case
3. GET A BLUMIN SURVEY NO MATTER WHAT - NO MATTER WHAT
4. Post to complete strangers when things go right or wrong - you can have little moments where you win, and where you dont!

Final stage -

Waiting for home insurance to confirm whether they will pay out.

Probably will not bother with the solicitor....3k fees 3k payout - makes no sense to do so.

I see this as a victory and a loss - A victory in the sense that we have a case - but a loss in the fat that our negligence means it would cost us the price that it would cost us to rewire anyway!

plus - GET A BLUMIN SURVEY NO MATTER WHAT - NO MATTER WHAT

Jhoney_2

sean1989 wrote: »

Well some updates:

1. Insurers are looking into claim ( still )
2. Conveyance team - Had response stating sellers have no knowledge of work etc etc
3. Estate Agents - Confirmed no other offer was removed or other survey complete
4. Independent Solicitor on misrepresentation:
Now this is the entire point i have been trying to prove all along - but hearing it from a solicitor that deals with misrepresentation should clear this up for all of us.

He basically was a blunt as you would expect a solicitor to be, not interested in any sob story, just wanting facts and figures.

Explained to him:
1. Questionnaire stated no electrical work
2. Electrical and gas work completed on property in 2009 - invoice as evidence
3. Electricians report on the condidition of the consumer unit and additions of electrical wiring
4. Fire caused due to faulty wiring etc

He asked -
1. Survey done?......No.....
2. Any malpractice by companies?.... Not that they have admitted
3. have you got every bit of paperwork?.... Yes

Solicitor response ( ill do this in reverse )
4. The defence would simply state that the fire was a fault and not becase of the "botched" jobs
3. The defence would simply state you have changed the wiring

Then it gets a little interesting...
2 and 1 - You could easily bring forward a case of misrepresentation and claim costs + damages from the previous sellers, you have paperwork as evidence ie. Document stating "no electircal work completed" and an invoice stating " electrical work completed" He said with a house it is "buy what you see" however you are bringing a case of misrepresentation, not a case of " im not happy with the house." The idea of misrepresentation is that you are accusing someone of lying and thus entering a contract with them which included the lie. The result - Costs + Damages and compensation *

However,

take into consideration,
1. The costs to win the case
2. Damages ONLY relating to the repairs
*3. Compensation may not be rewarded as you were negligent yourself by not completing checks
4. Obtaining payment from the defendent.

He mentioned that if the damage was more severe - such as partly burnt house - house burning down- then the case would yield much better results as the repair cost would simply be much higher and you may have been at risk of injury - to which he responded was anyone injured? i said no. he said "i see"

He further said that the home insurance should cover the cost of the rewire and if they dont you may wish to find out why but ultimately i can instruct him and send him all the paperwork and discuss how the case will be funded. I said i would get back to him.

OVERALL
So... I feel that (as previous posters have mentioned) the financial reward for winning the case would not be beneficial considering this guy may charge a small fortune and should i choose to take them to court myself - would probably get eaten alive by a defence lawyer.

Still.... i hope this does bring in to light that although a survey wasnt done - a lie on the questionaire could still come and bite you. I suppose in a way - both us and the seller were fortunate in the sense that - the house didnt suffer much damage and it only requires a rewire.

The solicitor did also mention that the insurance company in theory could hire one of their "solicitors" to investigate - however because they are all fresh out of school and dont know what they are doing would probably get knowhere ( he actually had a chuckle at himself for that )

Ultimately - i hope this proves valuable to FTBs

1. GET A BLUMIN SURVEY NO MATTER WHAT - NO MATTER WHAT
2. Yes you can bring a case of misrepresentation for a lie on a questionnaire regardless of your involvement - but it clearly may affect the final payout from the case
3. GET A BLUMIN SURVEY NO MATTER WHAT - NO MATTER WHAT
4. Post to complete strangers when things go right or wrong - you can have little moments where you win, and where you dont!

Final stage -

Waiting for home insurance to confirm whether they will pay out.

Probably will not bother with the solicitor....3k fees 3k payout - makes no sense to do so.

I see this as a victory and a loss - A victory in the sense that we have a case - but a loss in the fat that our negligence means it would cost us the price that it would cost us to rewire anyway!

plus - GET A BLUMIN SURVEY NO MATTER WHAT - NO MATTER WHAT[/QUOTE]

If I could thank you twice, I would. I noticed that you have take the time during this to try to help/warn others on other posts. You are obviously a considerate person :)but many are not....

NOOBS - Please don't leave your own outcomes to the financially invested whims of strangers - there is a major conflict of interest by the vendor and everyone else covers themselves with whatever they have at their disposal e.g disclaimers, small print and generalisations.

:beer:

sean1989_2

So i have a quote of 2.5k i obtained earlier for a full rewire - quite reasonable i suppose but they say this " NO Redecorating Required. No Surface work (trunking) and no need to pay ADDITIONAL COSTS for plasterers or decorators."
They apparenly use the sockets to feed and retrieve wires...

Too good to be true?

xHannahx

cattermole wrote: »

It won't be on their headed paper it should say "Law Society Property Information Form" the latest edition is 3rd in brackets to the right (not sure when this form came into being no doubt other posters are). With a stamp at the bottom Law Society. It could be photocopied etc and will be in mono.

Will it still have law society bits on when using a conveyancer who isn't law society accredited?

cattermole wrote: »

Taking it further is the Solicitor they used CQS accredited to the Law Society?

Countrywide conveyancing are not law society accredited. Having used them in the past wouldn't recommend them to my worst enemies.

sean1989 wrote: »

.

It became apparent today(The neighbor told me) that they had moved out very quickly but returned every day to obtain post. They vacated the premises months before completion - we was never informed of this. Could this have been the time the electrics were tampered with? who knows...

Was it a repo by any chance? Was the Seller In fact a mortgage company or insolvency company who wouldn't have a clue?


Another point that's confused me, you mentioned earlier that you were recommended the conveyancer as the seller was using them, yet you have said your conveyancer was contacting the sellers, now correct me if I'm wrong but are countrywide genuinely contacting themselves or have you been miss advised that the seller was using them by an estate agent getting big commission for referrals?

and most of the over inflated £2k you paid went to the estate agent for referring you,

Cornucopia

sean1989 wrote: »

So i have a quote of 2.5k i obtained earlier for a full rewire - quite reasonable i suppose but they say this " NO Redecorating Required. No Surface work (trunking) and no need to pay ADDITIONAL COSTS for plasterers or decorators."
They apparenly use the sockets to feed and retrieve wires...

Too good to be true?

Depending on the construction of the property, highly unlikely, I would say.

Even with modern cavity stud walls, feeding cables is often not straightforward, and can be very time-consuming. (I know, I have done it).

Cornucopia

xHannahx wrote: »

... and most of the over inflated £2k you paid went to the estate agent for referring you,

We don't know that, do we?

Given what the OP has said so far, the most likely possibility is that the £2k included Stamp Duty (SDLT).

baldelectrician

sean1989 wrote: »

So i have a quote of 2.5k i obtained earlier for a full rewire - quite reasonable i suppose but they say this " NO Redecorating Required. No Surface work (trunking) and no need to pay ADDITIONAL COSTS for plasterers or decorators."
They apparenly use the sockets to feed and retrieve wires...

Too good to be true?

That's not from an electrician- it's from a magician


Sounds too good to be true


See here
http://www.competentperson.co.uk/


this will help- use a registered electrical contractor

sean1989_2

baldelectrician wrote: »

That's not from an electrician- it's from a magician


Sounds too good to be true


See here



this will help- use a registered electrical contractor

So i thought i would enter his name, turns out he is registered....

Im bamboozled to it ... I really am... He promised zero damage what so ever.... But weird, any pro sparkies ever fully rewired without a bit of damage?

xHannahx

Cornucopia wrote: »

We don't know that, do we?

Given what the OP has said so far, the most likely possibility is that the £2k included Stamp Duty (SDLT).

Its been well publicised in the media recently regarding Countrywide's relationships with certain estate agents. It's a fairly safe assumption.

Cornucopia

Is it legal? How does the "fee" appear in the customer's itemised bill?