Tax Credits

lisyloo

we have the knowledge (but not yet the will) to undo much of the damage

So how would you bring back populations of say sharks that have collapsed.
Sharks like us have small numbers of young infrequently so cannot recover easily from population collapse.
As apex predators they are an important part of the eco-system.

As they exist in a 3D space that we don't have a great deal of technology to deal with - then what is this knowledge of which you speak? Emminent shark experts are not aware of it.

CLAPTON

lisyloo wrote: »

So how would you bring back populations of say sharks that have collapsed.
Sharks like us have small numbers of young infrequently so cannot recover easily from population collapse.
As apex predators they are an important part of the eco-system.

As they exist in a 3D space that we don't have a great deal of technology to deal with - then what is this knowledge of which you speak? Emminent shark experts are not aware of it.

99.99% of all animals that have ever existed are now extinct, so while I regret their passing, I do not see it as important as human extinction.

My concern would be to the continuous of the human specie in a peaceful and prosperous world.

The preservation of as many as possible of our existing flora and fauna would be a bonus.

Sapphire

99.99% of all animals that have ever existed are now extinct, so while I regret their passing, I do not see it as important as human extinction.

They are extinct due largely to natural events and evolution that takes place in the Animal Kingdom. These took place over millions of years, whereas we are now wiping out species in a matter of years. Forests are being cut down for bio-fuels and for the short-term 'benefits' of growing food for the growing masses, so we can get food out of season from 'exotic' places, etc. – a system that destroys the soil and leads to the destruction of ever-more forests. Moreover, if we show so little concern for the pain and suffering we inflict on species that share the planet with us, we are equally capable of doing the same for others of our own species (it doesn't take much for the veneer of civilisation to be rubbed off).

My concern would be to the continuous of the human specie in a peaceful and prosperous world.

A fool's hope. Much of the world outside Europe doesn't think like you do – many in the West appear to think that getting rid of dictators in certain parts of the world will result in democracy. In actual fact the opposite is the case. Places where there have always been sectarian, tribal conflicts (and I mean stretching back to prehistory, which I've studied) need a strong hand. One of my close in-laws is from Turkey, for example, and he says that even though he can't stand Erdogan, he really wanted him to be voted in because he could provide stability to the country. In their own ways, Hussein (though utterly vile) and Gaddafi did the same in their countries. It's a fundamental fact that people in the West cannot seem to grasp – or at least those who have never been invaded and seen war up-close. Wishing to have a 'peaceful and prosperous world' is all very nice, but wishing it so won't make it happen, unfortunately.

The preservation of as many as possible of our existing flora and fauna would be a bonus.

I disagree. I would rather the destruction of the human race, which is wreaking such havoc on the species that share the planet with it. A planet devoid of existing flora and fauna would be a desolate place. Yes, I realise that animals other than humans kill each other, but they do so without having a conscience; we have a conscience, yet we willingly engage in killing other species, as well as our own – and have done throughout history. It's just that the damage inflicted on the planet was never so bad as it is now, because the human population was controlled in various ways, whether through various plagues, or wars, or natural disasters. Now, barring the fall of a comet or the like on Earth, it is going to be wars that will destroy us – and we, poor, weak 'liberal' fools, living in our 'golden age' in the West, are ill prepared for it.

Veered off from the subject of tax credits somewhat, I know, but the question of humans breeding and over-populating the planet as though there's no tomorrow is connected to the above.

setmefree2

Sapphire wrote: »

Well, it's all going to explode anyway before long. Too many human beings in ever-increasing numbers are going to destroy the planet, with the ever-greater demands on resources and destruction of the environment. Competition for such resources will bring war – that's what generally happens, except now the world population is much higher than it's ever been. It tends to be the strongest and most ruthless who survive under such circumstances._pale_

Looking at the history of the world, and the way people can start to behave to each other as soon as they feel threatened, doesn't fill me with optimism. Doesn't look as though we are going to colonise other planets in the near future, either. :think:

Oh, well… let's party. :T :j:beer:

People have been predicting doom scenarios for population growth ever since Thomas Malthus in 1779 :rotfl:

beanie414

beecher2 wrote: »

I think that taxes should be used to support children through education, health and housing but I am not sure they should be used to shore up low wages or to encourage people to work a maximum of 16 hours. Paying for household expenses is surely the responsibility of the parent?

I'm not a parent but I would hope most parents do know that it is their responsibility.

setmefree2 wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11967860/Theres-a-strong-moral-case-against-tax-credits-why-didnt-George-Osborne-make-it.html

I don't know if I am becoming more sympathetic to the Tories the older I'm getting but that makes a lot of sense to me. Relying on TC for years could lock people into poverty.

What happens when the kids hit 16 (or 18?) and the tax credits stop. People would have been in low paying work and then what do they do as they have been relying on tax credits and will then lose them. They wouldn't have much chance of getting a better paying job at that point if they had just been doing the bare minimum in a pretty crappy job.

cells

lisyloo wrote: »

So how would you bring back populations of say sharks that have collapsed.
Sharks like us have small numbers of young infrequently so cannot recover easily from population collapse.
As apex predators they are an important part of the eco-system.

As they exist in a 3D space that we don't have a great deal of technology to deal with - then what is this knowledge of which you speak? Emminent shark experts are not aware of it.

the notion that things should always stay the same is a silly one

species die and new ones are created.

also we are of this world we have a right to change and manipulate it and in time we will be the guardians of this planet from the ture evil of nature and chance

cells

beanie414 wrote: »

What happens when the kids hit 16 (or 18?) and the tax credits stop. People would have been in low paying work and then what do they do as they have been relying on tax credits and will then lose them. They wouldn't have much chance of getting a better paying job at that point if they had just been doing the bare minimum in a pretty crappy job.

well if you can have another kid in your 40s then the kid can see you though to retirement...

cells

Sapphire wrote: »

99.99% of all animals that have ever existed are now extinct, so while I regret their passing, I do not see it as important as human extinction.

They are extinct due largely to natural events and evolution that takes place in the Animal Kingdom. These took place over millions of years, whereas we are now wiping out species in a matter of years. Forests are being cut down for bio-fuels and for the short-term 'benefits' of growing food for the growing masses, so we can get food out of season from 'exotic' places, etc. – a system that destroys the soil and leads to the destruction of ever-more forests. Moreover, if we show so little concern for the pain and suffering we inflict on species that share the planet with us, we are equally capable of doing the same for others of our own species (it doesn't take much for the veneer of civilisation to be rubbed off).

My concern would be to the continuous of the human specie in a peaceful and prosperous world.

A fool's hope. Much of the world outside Europe doesn't think like you do – many in the West appear to think that getting rid of dictators in certain parts of the world will result in democracy. In actual fact the opposite is the case. Places where there have always been sectarian, tribal conflicts (and I mean stretching back to prehistory, which I've studied) need a strong hand. One of my close in-laws is from Turkey, for example, and he says that even though he can't stand Erdogan, he really wanted him to be voted in because he could provide stability to the country. In their own ways, Hussein (though utterly vile) and Gaddafi did the same in their countries. It's a fundamental fact that people in the West cannot seem to grasp – or at least those who have never been invaded and seen war up-close. Wishing to have a 'peaceful and prosperous world' is all very nice, but wishing it so won't make it happen, unfortunately.

The preservation of as many as possible of our existing flora and fauna would be a bonus.

I disagree. I would rather the destruction of the human race, which is wreaking such havoc on the species that share the planet with it. A planet devoid of existing flora and fauna would be a desolate place. Yes, I realise that animals other than humans kill each other, but they do so without having a conscience; we have a conscience, yet we willingly engage in killing other species, as well as our own – and have done throughout history. It's just that the damage inflicted on the planet was never so bad as it is now, because the human population was controlled in various ways, whether through various plagues, or wars, or natural disasters. Now, barring the fall of a comet or the like on Earth, it is going to be wars that will destroy us – and we, poor, weak 'liberal' fools, living in our 'golden age' in the West, are ill prepared for it.

Veered off from the subject of tax credits somewhat, I know, but the question of humans breeding and over-populating the planet as though there's no tomorrow is connected to the above.

humans are more important than every other animal on this planet combined your wish to have us extinct is a stupid brain washed view but I am happy for you to end yourself as an example if you truly do believe

Humans are important not just because we are special but because we will be custodians and savours of the earth itself and life on it.

Sapphire

cells wrote: »

humans are more important than every other animal on this planet combined your wish to have us extinct is a stupid brain washed view but I am happy for you to end yourself as an example if you truly do believe

Humans are important not just because we are special but because we will be custodians and savours of the earth itself and life on it.

Jolly good. Believe that if you want to and close your mind to what goes on around you. It's your funeral. Only pray, according to who are humans 'more important than every animal on this planet combined'? To the animals? To the universe? To you personally? I, on the other hand, believe that to say that humans are 'special' (why?) and will be 'custodians and savours [sic] of the earth [sic] itself' is ignorant, thoughtless, arrogant nonsense that flies in the face of the facts.

There's nothing more that I wish to communicate with you about – but please, do carry on partying while immersed in your ignorant worldview. :rotfl::T

wotsthat

cells wrote: »

humans are more important than every other animal on this planet combined your wish to have us extinct is a stupid brain washed view but I am happy for you to end yourself as an example if you truly do believe

It's the usual argument. There are too many (other) humans and they're spoiling my personal enjoyment of the planet.