Paid by Paypal for non-eBay item. Seller didn't send item. Can I claim my money back?

Obstinate

Let's just say I stupidly trusted paying someone from craigslist through paypal without meeting them in real life. I used the goods and services option to pay. And guess what. They didn't send me the item and they won't respond to my texts or calls. So simply looking at it, I should be covered in a refund since I didn't receive anything, right? Not like this makes a difference to the complete transaction that was supposed to occur, but I voluntarily chose not to show my shipping address when paying the seller. Would this in any way affect my chance of getting a full refund? Do the representatives have to specifically know what the item is? I basically got scammed by purchasing an "intangible" item which is why I think if I mention my stupidity they'd be like "haha you deserve that for being stupid" but apparently sellers aren't protected for intangible items so why would paypal side with them over me, right? The seller was basically taking advantage of me and the system if anything.

I just don't know how "not received items/refunds" cases work. If I open a dispute, the seller will get a message to provide evidence that they shipped the item, right? And when they fail to respond to that within a item period, would I automatically get a refund? What if they decide to "fight back" and contact PayPal, without any evidence because they obviously did not freaking send me anything, would it affect my chances in anyway, or no? I'm just so upset and so afraid PayPal will side with the scammer... help and wisdom is very much needed.

theonlywayisup

What did you buy? I can't work out if it is an eligible item or not from your OP. How do you expect a seller to ship and item with no address to send to?

enfield_freddy

the likes of craiglist (UK) http://birmingham.craigslist.co.uk/ptd/5200563593.html


scamology at its best

sportsarb

So you paid someone for some work that they failed to turn carry out for you?

Do you have all correspondence regarding the work? It could constitute a contract that you should be able to hold them to because they didn't develop what you wanted them to. Whether that is through eBay or som kind of court I don't know.

How significant a sum of money was it?

Obstinate

It was concert tickets that they supposedly were going to transfer electronically on an external site (they even put in the transfer request that they received $60 for it) but it failed to successfully come through to me and after that they didn't care to deliver them through. And it's past the concert date.

But it shouldn't matter what the item is... it could've been something physical (tangible) or nontangible. The fact is I did my part as a buyer and paid and didn't receive something and shouldn't be the one having to prove or justify anything since it's the seller's part to make sure the item gets successfully delivered, right? I just don't know how I'd approach this with PayPal.

Shouldn't the seller be getting in trouble with misguiding me in sending them a payment when they should've sent an invoice or something. The seller and buyer protections are all over the place. However, it says seller protection doesn't include intangible items but buyers' does to some extent. So how do I make my case stronger?

soolin

Can you please just clarify if you are in the US?

There are slight differences in the paypal protection between the US and UK (each country has different laws and regulations that paypal have to comply with) so any advice here based on the UK system won't necessarily apply.

If you are in the US you may need to find a suitable forum there for a full and accurate response.

soolin

Looking at the US site it appears that there is no automatic right to a refund- but it gets decided by ebay based on both parties responses, so I don't know exactly how that will work when it is based entirely on whether an email was sent / received.

https://www.paypal.com/gr/webapps/mpp/merchant-intangibles-update

We consider all claims on their merits. If you can show us that you provided the goods or services as described, we may reject the buyer’s claim. You’ll find more detailed terms and conditions on our Security Page or in our User Agreement.

Obstinate

soolin wrote: »

Can you please just clarify if you are in the US?

There are slight differences in the paypal protection between the US and UK (each country has different laws and regulations that paypal have to comply with) so any advice here based on the UK system won't necessarily apply.

If you are in the US you may need to find a suitable forum there for a full and accurate response.

Yes, I'm in the US. I felt more comfortable with seeking advice from this community than other forums. You all appear quite helpful and knowledgeable too.

soolin wrote: »

Looking at the US site it appears that there is no automatic right to a refund- but it gets decided by ebay based on both parties responses, so I don't know exactly how that will work when it is based entirely on whether an email was sent / received.

[snip]

We consider all claims on their merits. If you can show us that you provided the goods or services as described, we may reject the buyer’s claim. You’ll find more detailed terms and conditions on our Security Page or in our User Agreement.

This link makes me feel more hopeful. So what I'm planning to do is file a dispute after the 7th day and then quickly escalate it to a claim (is there a specific time frame I must allow or is this okay to do right away or a day later?) I am just sick of scammers and don't want this rude seller to have a single extra time to come up with anything fishy. I was planning to be vague when describing shortly for the not received claim, mentioning how I failed to receive any item or proper response from the seller and how at this point I just want a refund of my money and how I'm willing to cover any fees towards Paypal as long the fund isn't in that scammer's hand. Would I be pressed to go into further detail of the transaction item for PayPal's final decision? I'm just so afraid they'll turn on me and go "oh that's intangible and since we have such a vague policy on it, you're on your own." Ugh, would they morally let a clear wrongdoing/modern robbing slip like that?

If anymore detail of the situation will help, what happened is, I received an email from a reputable site for transfer request to receive the tickets. Upon attempting to accept it through a link from my email, it goes to the reputable site saying "unsuccessful transfer" which I have screenshotted. Also on the transfer request email, it had a short description of them receiving a $60 Paypal transaction in exhange for it. So when I told my seller this is the problem I'm experiencing, they offer to cancel it and resend the transfer. So the next email proof I have is from the reputable site stating that the person has cancelled the ticket transfer request. After that the seller basically went silent and didn't care if they fully delivered their end of the transaction leaving me with nothing and leaving them with both the ticket and my money... how am I supposed to be held reliable for them attempting to sell me faulty tickets which they could be doing to multiple people as far as anyone was concerned... isn't it Paypal's job to shut down scammers who abuse the system through their site?

glentoran99

You bought something, you didn't get it, open an item not received dispute in paypal

Obstinate

glentoran99 wrote: »

You bought something, you didn't get it, open an item not received dispute in paypal

I see it exactly as this, the raw matter of the situation. It's just I'm worried I might not be covered because they consider virtual/event tickets ineligible?? But on a different buyer protection policy they state buyers' have protection over intangible items?? Am I overthinking this? I just don't want to lose...

soolin

Obstinate wrote: »

I see it exactly as this, the raw matter of the situation. It's just I'm worried I might not be covered because they consider virtual/event tickets ineligible?? But on a different buyer protection policy they state buyers' have protection over intangible items?? Am I overthinking this? I just don't want to lose...

Unless you have an alternative plan I can't see what you have to lose by trying a paypal claim.

In the Uk you 'might' potentially have a claim against a credit card company if you funded the purchase that way via paypal, but I've no idea how or whether that is possible in the US.