Anyone heard of Secotherm?

phil24_7

gardan1973 - Glad you joined just to tell us!

I stopped reading your post after sceptical...because that's how I feel about your input!

prosaver - PVA would never last on an external wall as it re-activates on contact with water. The old way of waterproofing walls was a silicone based liquid and it needs reapplying every few years from what I can remember.

no house is ever built with this stuff so no house will need it now. Any damp will be caused by 1 or more problems. Sort them...no damp!

Regards
Phil

gardan1973

Sorry, but I do not understand you. I always use to be sceptic when I am offered a solution that I never heard before......As you mentioned.....I sorted it out, believe me - with secotherm. You should have seen my house before treating it.

Let me tell you that secotherm has a VAT benefit from UK authorities as they have proven that with its application energy can be saved. But I am sure that you do not agree as you may know a lot more than them.....

TheCyclingProgrammer

I'm still unable to find any comprehensive independent review of Secotherm, but lots and lots of people flogging the stuff. That tells me everything I need to know.

phil24_7

gardan1973 - You seem to be stating all the 'facts' about this produce as if you are selling it.

There has also never been any links supplied to the actual, independent reviews or tests.

If it is so good, you will have some before and after shots of your house you could post? Perhaps even an invoice (suitably redacted obviously)?

I've moved from sceptical to 'I don't believe the bull'!

Bricks are water resistant but vapour permeable if in good condition so why would anyone need to spend countless thousands on a product that should not be needed?

As I mentioned earlier. If you have damp issues, sort the real problems out, not mask them with a poorly thought out and constructed 'band-aid'!

Regards
Phil

phoenix_w

I think the science is mostly sound - these products essentially block up most of the capillary action in the brick & mortar reducing the amount of water that gets absorbed. It's essentially a creamy version of Thompson's Water Seal. Because the wall doesn't hold as much water this means heat within the building isn't lost at as great a rate as it would be with a damp wall.

This makes it a great idea for single-skin walls which will get damp with driven rain, at least. It remains to be see how much energy loss can be prevented through cavity walls, though, I'd imagine you'd never earn your money back unless the product is very cheap and the labour to apply it is chucked in for a very low cost.

If someone were to donate a few buckets for my single-skin garage I'd give it a go and my cats can report whether they're any warmer next winter :-)

phil24_7

Wouldn't put this stuff (or Thompson's stuff for that matter) anywhere near a building I had any vested interest in. There are much better and more permanent solutions to any problems these 'wonder treatments' could ever fix.

Regards
Phil

Grenage

Yes, some external (or even internal) solid insulation would be the way forward, not some brick glue nonsense that will keep water in just as well as it will keep it out.

Frameworker

I had a quote to coat my house with SecoTherm creme for £4200. This was worked out at £42/sq.mt. I have seen SecoTherm being sold on eBay in 10 litre drums for £213. These were surplus drums to a large contract, and the seller was seeking to simply recover the cost of them . Coverage is about 7mts per litre, making the cost of materials about £3/mt. This leaves a very large sum rather unaccounted for! The rep said he did not know what his company paid for this product - I found this a little hard to believe. Other products are available for fairly similar prices and seem to have the same properties - Stormdry to name but one. All can be applied by brush, roller or low pressure spray quite easily; and seem well within the capabilities of a keen amateur DIYer. These products are not classed as hazardous. I estimated I could easily treat my house in a day for a cost of about £250-300, plus my labour.
I would urge extreme caution in considering accepting a quote from any of these companies offering these treatments. The cost seems exorbitant and the savings on energy bills are based on 25%, which I feel is very optimistic. Even if this where the case, which I doubt, it would take about 10+ years to recoup the capital outlay - much longer if the savings were significantly less.
PROCEED WITH CAUTION!!!

Builditrite

Ok,
Please, no more speculation, check the reports.
Some facts.
All masonry creams work. (SecoTherm, StormDry,Properla etc)
They are hydrophobic materials.
They penetrate the masonry and prevent water from entering the brickwork/masonry.
They do not prevent airborne moisture from entering or exiting the masonry, (it allows the masonry to "breath").
This does however dramatically reduce the amount of moisture in the masonry.
This in turn dramatically reduces the amount of heat transferred through the masonry.
Of course, the greater the heat loss before treatment, the greater the benefits after treatment, and so this is not particularly beneficial to properties with cavity wall insulation, though it does help.
There are numerous other benefits from keeping your walls dry.
Reduces/eliminates algae growth.
Reduces/eliminates "freeze thaw" issues (where brick faces fall apart), called Spalling.
Walls are easier to maintain and easier to keep clean etc.

Most masonry creams come with a 20 year manufacturers guarantee and one product is BBA certified. cert No.15/5198
There are also several independent lab reports, University of Portsmouth being one of them, links below.
You can apply this yourself, but I would recommend you get an accredited company to do it, the wall will need to be pressure washed first in order to ensure it is free from dirt and any loose masonry, then any remedial work (pointing etc) will need to be done and a suitable anti fungal/algae applied before the masonry cream, that way you will get your 20 year guarantee.
Though don't pay more than £15 to £20 per square metre.
Here are the links for the reports:- (you will need to add "http://" and copy and paste)
Portsmouth Uni:
storage.googleapis.com/wzukusers/user-17911946/documents/565dcbc4157c9sX7Lk3D/094-Rirsch.pdf

Giraffe Innovation:
static.safeguardeurope.com/pdfs/energy-saving-stormdry-waterproofing.pdf

There are other reports if you search around.

I would appreciate it if you would please read the reports before commenting on this post!!

Cheers

phoenix_w

I've checked the report, but it's telling that their model is based around a house without a cavity - where I don't think anyone would disagree that such a product probably would make a minor difference to energy efficiency.

The unanswered question is what happens long term to the model property? Older properties weren't designed to be air tight to the same level of modern properties and it's unknown whether these sealing solutions will have a negative impact long term.

Also how do you ensure the brickwork has a sensible level of moisture before installation? Installation even weeks/months after heavy rainfall in a double brick building and applying this may end up just sealing in damp in the brickwork - once this stuff is applied it ain't getting out easily without bringing damp inside the property.