Hybrid vs Diesel

WellKnownSid

thescouselander wrote: »

both solutions are needlessly complicated. Just get something with a decent petrol engine; some of the latest ones are very good.

The Prius isn't that complicated. Replacement cells for the battery pack can be obtained from eBay for around $70... Plenty of people have obtained 200,000+ miles out of the original battery.

It's mostly conventional technology used unconventionally.

snowscreamer

bigjl wrote: »

Don't forget the Auris comes in an estate, which is a nice looking family car.

They are trying to get PH drivers and Taxi drivers to buy them (Taxis that can use normal vehicles rather than the purpose built vehicles such as in London)

I wasn't aware of the Auris coming in an estate - thanks for the tip! However I had a quick browse on Autotrader and it's coming up more expensive than the Prius anyway. Seems to go:

Yaris < Auris < Prius < Auris Estate

snowscreamer

thescouselander wrote: »

To be honest I wouldn't go for either - both solutions are needlessly complicated. Just get something with a decent petrol engine; some of the latest ones are very good. Having just changed from a petrol car to a diesel I haven't found it to be any more efficient but the new diesel car definitely has more to go wrong with it.

A petrol car is prohibitively expensive to run compared to hybrid or diesel. Quick calculations show over 5 years including repairs (average), fuel cost, depreciation:

VW Golf 1.6 TDI BlueMotion (diesel) - £12700
VW Golf 1.4 TSI (petrol) - £16850
Toyota Prius 1.8 VVTi (hybrid) - £15400

The reliability on Toyota hybrids is excellent, better than most petrol cars it just wouldn't make sense to go for a petrol over a hybrid...

Even if his OH's commute shortens and he does 10000 miles per year the petrol still comes out more expensive:

VW Golf 1.6 TDI BlueMotion (diesel) - £10500
VW Golf 1.4 TSI (petrol) - £13700
Toyota Prius 1.8 VVTi (hybrid) - £13100


It might make sense to get a diesel over a hybrid (that's what I'm debating) but it certainly wouldn't make sense to get a petrol car...

WellKnownSid

The Prius is a different proposition - being built from the ground up to be a hybrid, rather than what is a more conventional car built with a hybrid option in mind.

That may make the packaging different - I don't know the cars well enough to comment but it'll be things like interior space and storage along with ride/handling/overall efficiency.

I would expect the Prius to have less compromises overall.

snowscreamer

WellKnownSid wrote: »

The Prius is a different proposition - being built from the ground up to be a hybrid, rather than what is a more conventional car built with a hybrid option in mind.

That may make the packaging different - I don't know the cars well enough to comment but it'll be things like interior space and storage along with ride/handling/overall efficiency.

I would expect the Prius to have less compromises overall.

With boot space in mind the "cheaper options" Yaris and Auris Hatchback are unsuitable anyway. And with the Auris Estate coming up more expensive we're back to the Prius anyway! Did love it when we had it in America last year. In fact we were totally convinced that it would be our next car until I got swayed by the apparent lower running costs of efficient diesels. But at the moment, I'm swinging back towards hybrids. Especially as motorway miles will be limited and that seems the only place where diesels excel...

I wonder how long our current diesel will actually last with OH's commute until our hand is forced and we have to stump up for the new car. I had been hoping we might get at least another couple of years but we'll see. Might have to take the plunge sooner.

gzoom

snowscreamer wrote: »

The other question is - does reliability on a diesel depend on the sort of driving you're doing - ie. if your driving is mainly urban rather than motorway is your car going to spend more time (and money) at the garage? Come to think of it this one could help explain a previous diesel car's untimely demise...

You may not believe it but when considering what to replace my wife Civic diesel with, concerns about reliability/DPF issues with diesels is one of the reasons we looked at hybrids. My daily commute had just dropped from 100 miles a day to 10. By the time the diesel engine has warmed up I would have arrived at work. If you add in city traffic 35mpg out of a diesel would be good going:)

The hybrid Lexus we have is the opposite, in traffic the mpg actually goes UP!!! But even on M-ways, it can achieve 65mpg+. Clearly mpg depends on how you drive the car, but the car was reporting this after a 240 mile trip from Leicester to London, including 40 miles of stand-still traffic around the A406. Bare in mind the Lexus is rated at 220bhp, does 0-60 in just over 8 seconds - so decent enough performance for a car stuffed full of gadgets/leather etc.

Also in your calculations don't forge to factor in deprecation, in 5 years time when stricter emissions laws come into force and diesels are penalised, what's your diesel going to be worth compared to a hybrid??...The fact the Prius holds its money well should be sign of which way the market is heading .



.....and thats before you get use to the smooth hybrid drivetrain. The rattle of the diesel engine in our old Civic was soul destroying, especially after a long day at work, stuck in a traffic jam some 30 miles away from home....Having to listen to that constant 'chunk' 'chunk' 'chunk' whilst feeling the cabin vibrating away...It was like a physical reminder of life passing you by whilst all your doing is trying to do is get to and from work

snowscreamer

I did factor in depreciation in my calculations - but at today's rates. I think you're right that diesel may be hit harder in the future.

Pincher

Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.
No congestion charge, no road tax, low Company Car tax. Some free parking.

Petrol plug-in hybrid. The battery range is about 32 miles.

The ideal London commute vehicle, not so good for high milage use, though. If I was working, round trip to central London is about 16 miles.

spinybif_2

Beware the prius , just traded mine at 83,000 as started using excessive oil, common problem with Toyota engines as they get older, mpg around 53 mixed motorway/ town driving. New car golf diesel, easily getting 65mpg, car cost 4k less than same age Prius bought 4 years ago. Vote for diesel, just need to worry about vw emissions troubles.

gzoom

spinybif wrote: »

Beware the prius , just traded mine at 83,000 as started using excessive oil, common problem with Toyota engines as they get older, mpg around 53 mixed motorway/ town driving. New car golf diesel, easily getting 65mpg, car cost 4k less than same age Prius bought 4 years ago. Vote for diesel, just need to worry about vw emissions troubles.

I think it's more than a 'worry'

By the looks of things ALOT of VW group diesels are pretty much 'illegal' interms of emissions.

If you look at the way the 'software' hack works, it changes the engine mapping when it thinks the car is been tested in an emission centre. There is no reason to believe European cars don't do exactly the same thing, so come MOT time, the ECU recognises it's indoors and about to be tested for emissions, so switches to a different map to produce the legal emissions, but once back on the road it switches back to 'normal' setting and the emissions go through the roof.

IF this is proven to be the case in Europe, VW-group are in big big trouble. It's not the consumers fault, but essentially all these cars are pumping out extremely high levels of harmful chemicals. Would you really want to sit behind one of these things in a traffic jam knowing that?? Would you be happy for your kids to walk past these things in a traffic jam and breath in all those lovely carcinogens?? I know I wouldn't....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34345210