Vendor illegally entered property after completion?

societys_child

The other side of the coin is that you could have hired a skip to dispose of the items and sent the bill to the vendor (people do this) which kind of proves the items were not yours to keep.

Agree the vendor should not have kept a set of keys and entered your property though, maybe he hoped you would be there, but hey, no harm done . .

JencParker

icantbelieveitsnotbutter wrote: »

Hi All, hoping you can help please?

I have just bought a property, which completed on Friday morning. I was working on the Friday so didn't go to collect the keys until later in the day, I popped round to the house to make sure all was well and I was happy that it was. The seller had left a couple items of furniture, which although not formally part of the sale, assumed that they couldn't be bothered to take on and a bonus if I wanted them myself. For info the seller wasn't living there, it was previously let out but he had no tenants for a while prior me buying it, so sold as vacant possession. I am currently renting and I'm on my last week now.

I was also working Saturday, so didn't go round the property until Sunday to spend a full day there. To my shock the items of furniture left had since disappeared! This means the seller has since entered the property, long after completion, presumably having retained a set of keys?! There was no sign of forced entry, so not a burglary, and not the typical items that would be stolen...

To me this is outrageous and must be illegal? The items were of modest value, but either way, still theft too, as from completion I own the property and its contents? I've since had to get the locks changed at my expense so nothing I put in the property walks either...

Where do I stand legally?

If you've only just completed I would ask you solicitor. You don't seem to accept the advice here so the best thing would be to ask your solicitor. While the vendor was wrong to collect things after completion, I don't think you'll get anything financially out of it. A solicitor's letter - £120? maybe.
Perhaps that money would be better spent on some counselling to help you understand why you are over reacting to a situation and don't seem to be able to move on!

kinger101

icantbelieveitsnotbutter wrote: »

Changing the locks was a direct result of the entry and consequential loss to me. Arguably from advice here I may well have done that at some point anyway, but in this instance there's a direct relation to the actions of the entry and mine to change the locks.

I'm no expert, but is trespass not simply having a walk through someone's garden within invitation, for example? Simply from my perspective I'd like to think the 'crime' is greater in this case. The keys were purposefully retained, there was intent to enter the property out of ownership, to take items out of that property without any consent, etc. Is that not so?

Let this go. You needed to change the locks anyway. How might your insurance company respond if you were actually burgled by a keyholder? Are you really that impervious to common sense?

missprice

Having moved house earlier this year, I had a major clear out. In that clear out I chucked a load of old keys that were in a junk drawer. Some of those keys were from houses I had lived in over 30 years ago. I didn't plan to keep them all this time, but in assume I had some reason at the time, or was just too lazy to get back to old house to drop them off. Or as is more likely, I assume the new house owner would change the locks anyway as a first measure.

This house I am in now was probate sale, first thing soon as we got keys was change locks. Who knew if the neighbour/carer/window cleaner/dodgy grandson/milkman/think of any random person that may need keys for any spurious or not reason. The neighbour actually handed over their back door key. Which is fab but who else had access to it and could have made a copy? Their dog walker, the mobile hairdressers, the neighbour over the back. Etc.
As you cannot prove that the vendor never gave keys to anyone at all, then you can't prove vendor took stuff.

QUOTE=icantbelieveitsnotbutter;69110191]Changing the locks was a direct result of the entry and consequential loss to me. Arguably from advice here I may well have done that at some point anyway, but in this instance there's a direct relation to the actions of the entry and mine to change the locks.

I'm no expert, but is trespass not simply having a walk through someone's garden within invitation, for example? Simply from my perspective I'd like to think the 'crime' is greater in this case. The keys were purposefully retained, there was intent to enter the property out of ownership, to take items out of that property without any consent, etc. Is that not so?[/QUOTE]

JencParker

icantbelieveitsnotbutter wrote: »

Hi All, hoping you can help please?

I have just bought a property, which completed on Friday morning. I was working on the Friday so didn't go to collect the keys until later in the day, I popped round to the house to make sure all was well and I was happy that it was. The seller had left a couple items of furniture, which although not formally part of the sale, assumed that they couldn't be bothered to take on and a bonus if I wanted them myself. For info the seller wasn't living there, it was previously let out but he had no tenants for a while prior me buying it, so sold as vacant possession. I am currently renting and I'm on my last week now.

I was also working Saturday, so didn't go round the property until Sunday to spend a full day there. To my shock the items of furniture left had since disappeared! This means the seller has since entered the property, long after completion, presumably having retained a set of keys?! There was no sign of forced entry, so not a burglary, and not the typical items that would be stolen...

To me this is outrageous and must be illegal? The items were of modest value, but either way, still theft too, as from completion I own the property and its contents? I've since had to get the locks changed at my expense so nothing I put in the property walks either...

Where do I stand legally?

Firstly, no you do not own the contents unless listed in your contract.
Secondly, when you saw them there on the first day, did you make any attempt to contact the vendor (either directly or through you solicitor) to inform them that the items had been left and what will be done about them?
How do you know the vendor didn't hire someone to move the items and had no idea that they had been left?
Left items do not automatically make them yours - in fact, legally you have a duty to give the vendor the opportunity to collect them before you can dispose of them.


This incident has highlighted to you, the need to change the locks. I would take it as a lesson learnt and be thankful that no damage was done, your insurance was not invalidated etc....


Move on and enjoy your new home.

jimbog

Twopints wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbog
....meanwhile in Syria...

What a ridiculous, lazy, meaningless response. You might as well post it on every single thread on this and any other forum. .

It helped the OP to keep things in perspective

chanz4

kinger101 wrote: »

Nonsense. The CPS prosecute criminal offences, which is beyond reasonable doubt. The problem here is even if a crime has been committed (which I doubt), this clearly wouldn't go to court.

Balance of probability is for civil proceedings. The problem here is there is no consequential loss, or likelihood it will continue.

Disagree, and in my previous job I was a CPS professional witness

Robisere

True story from a previous house, many years ago, in another county:
It was rented from a Housing Association and they routinely changed the locks. It was also heated by coal fired C.H. boiler, with an outside coal house. I changed the locks on the coal house, as I had obtained a ton of coal and did not want it stolen: it was a rough area.

After 11 pm on a Sunday night, missus and I had just got to bed, almost asleep. Noises from the back, followed by banging on the front door. At the door I met the previous tenant: "You changed the coal house lock!" I could not believe the sheer nerve, not to mention the stupidity of this guy, who tried to assert that the coal in there was his. After an altercation, during which he attacked me and lost the ensuing fight, neighbours gathered round and helped me hold him down until the police arrived. It took almost a year to get the case dealt with and the idiot was still trying to say that the coal was his. 3 neighbours were witnesses, the Association gave evidence that they had cleared the coal house after he left, but it still took all that time to bring an end to it. After I left that place, I heard years afterwards that he had been found dead in a gutter, overdosed on booze and Heroin. The world was a better place.

There are worse disputes than losing some second-hand furniture that was never "yours" anyway. Get on with your life, and if you move home again, make sure you take what is yours, and change the locks on the new home as soon as you take legal possession of the property.

AdrianC

icantbelieveitsnotbutter wrote: »

I'm no expert, but is trespass not simply having a walk through someone's garden within invitation, for example?

No.

No damage was done, so it's not breaking and entering, and it's not criminal damage. It is just trespass.

Simply from my perspective I'd like to think the 'crime' is greater in this case.

I'm sure you would. But that doesn't make it so.

The keys were purposefully retained, there was intent to enter the property out of ownership, to take items out of that property without any consent, etc. Is that not so?

I don't know. Do you, really? How do you KNOW that they weren't collected by a man-plus-van who'd been given the wrong date by accident?

moneyistooshorttomention

All round - and OP is understandably still angry with this vendor. The general consensus seems to be there is no way he will get his possessions back again. But it does indeed look like the main thing bothering OP is the intrusion into his home.

That being the case - then OP - do you have this vendors phone number (hopefully)? If so (or you can find some way to meet up with him in person) then I guess the thing to do is to "tell him what you think of him" verbally (NOT in writing) and give him a right bollocking for intruding into your home like that.

Then you've done what you can - and maybe made him think twice about doing anything like that again to anyone - and you're not just "stewing" about what you would like to say to him. You've got it out of your system and done what you can to stop him doing this again to anyone.

Then forget it and move on.

If its not possible, for some reason, to tell him "what for" - then write a letter expressing the lot - and then burn it (don't send it) and then forget it and move on.