Corbynomics: A Dystopia

Eric_the_half_a_bee

antrobus wrote: »

Well, as regards Kelvin Hopkins, BBC Breakfast were saying that the complaint against him had been raised some time earlier, at which time he was reprimanded. At then promoted to the shadow cabinet.

Cover up, I say, cover up!

Kelvin Hopkins was one of the 36 MPs who nominated Jeremy Corbyn in his 2015 leadership campaign.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/06/who-nominated-who-2015-labour-leadership-election

But I'm sure that has nothing to do with it

buglawton

Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »

How do you reconcile your theory that the Tories "are better at hiding it" with the fact that a list of 36 Tory MPs and allegations against them is widely circulating in the public domain, with no comparable list for Labour?

Presumably the list will lead to some ministerial resignations but no-one resigning from their seat and forcing a by-election?
In other words, these revelations won't be the demise of the current Tory administration?

Moby

Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »

How do you reconcile your theory that the Tories "are better at hiding it" with the fact that a list of 36 Tory MPs and allegations against them is widely circulating in the public domain, with no comparable list for Labour?

Eric you are being very specific...I'm talking the general pattern of history...ever read up on the Prufumo Scandal for instance? Read how Stephen Ward was hung out to dry by the establishment, how Mandy Rice Davies was imprisoned in Holloway on driving licence offences until she agreed to testify against him. The list whether Tory, Labour or Martian is a breakthrough and I say ...about time!

Moby

Boredatwrork wrote: »

Well that, and pay Len Mclusky a six figure sum for basically doing work no more complicated than any random bloke in a call centre, and I would imgaine he gets a few free lunches along the way. Solidarity and all that.




Nothing more than a baseless sweeping accusation. The powerful, just like the poor influence both good and bad, is the poor mugger on the street any better than the million pound fraudster? because he is poor, what kind of salary does the murderer have to be on get a better deal?
This whole rich = bad, poor = good equation you are convinced off is B0ll0ck5 quite frankly, if it were true the world would be a very different place.
Of course judges and jurys vary, and of course they get it wrong, but thats up and down the scale, and the scrutiny put on public figures these days often puts many at an unfair disadvantage, of course it would have to be looked at by a case by case scenario to get a real estimate, on another note inst there a very large outcry for decades now about lenient sentences being given to people up and down the scale?




There's are plenty of rich powerful people who have been done for traffic offenses, and plenty of people who are not rich or powerful who have got off. Once again no real raw data, just your own cynical opinion, that you expect people to accept as fact.



So basically you admit you dislike a demographic and consider them more guilty, because you percieve the system is failing, regardless if the system failing or not, the fact that you consider people guilty before innocent is hardly the position you want to take "those (rich/powerful/white men/blacks/immigrants) must be up to no good..."



You are saying they must be more guilty, because they have a better chance of hiding it. nothing more nothing less. Would you consider that a rair and reasonable position if you were in the dock accused of something, on the evidence of because someone perceives you could get away with it. What a ridiculous position for christs sake, do you not see how misguided this logic is? How is this position any different to drowning witches?

All the above is just a anecdotal ranty response of your opinions without any research basis, informed by your prejudices. There's clearly no point in me responding to that. Just for starters go away and do some homework on the effects of the Govmts reduction in availability of legal aid for instance:https://www.lawcareers.net/Information/Features/01022016-Legal-aid-why-equality-before-the-law-no-longer-exists-in-the-UK-in-20 http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/policy-campaigns/campaigns/access-to-justice/ Corruption and racism https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/16/stephen-lawrence-inquiry-hunts-police-alleged-to-have-shielded-killers

Eric_the_half_a_bee

Moby wrote: »

Just for starters go away and do some homework on the effects of the Govmts reduction in availability of legal aid for instance

Lawyers complain about reduction in taxpayer funded payments to lawyers. Colour me shocked.

antrobus

antrobus wrote: »

Well, as regards Kelvin Hopkins, BBC Breakfast were saying that the complaint against him had been raised some time earlier, at which time he was reprimanded. At then promoted to the shadow cabinet.

Cover up, I say, cover up!

Oh no, it gets worse.

Jeremy Corbyn 'warned over promoting harassment claim MP'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41857136

"I'm very disillusioned because just a few months later I realised that Jeremy Corbyn promoted Kelvin Hopkins to the shadow cabinet, despite the fact that the leader's office was aware of this and they refused to act and that made me feel very powerless and isolated and alone."

Says activist Ava Etemadzadeh.

P.S. Kelvin Hopkins is 76. Ava Etemadzadeh is 27.

antrobus

Oh double no. It gets worser!! (sic)

Carl Sargeant, a Welsh AM and cabinet member has resigned and been suspended. Unspecified allegations. He even claims to not know what they are.

And Clive Lewis MP is being investigated after a woman complained that" he gave my bum a big squeeze" at some Momentum event.

No one is safe, I tell you. At this rate, we won't have any politicians left by Christmas. Apart from Theresa May, Dianne Abbot etc and so forth.

Mind you, I have no idea what any of this has to do with Corbynomics, economics, or any kind of nomics. But it is a damn sight more fun than the Cochrane–Orcutt iteration.

Moby

Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »

Lawyers complain about reduction in taxpayer funded payments to lawyers. Colour me shocked.

Come on now..... legal aid doesn't pay much. Lawyers earn far more from contract law. The lawyers here are talking about access to justice for the disadvantaged. At least acknowledge the issue.

Moby

antrobus wrote: »

Oh double no. It gets worser!! (sic)

Carl Sargeant, a Welsh AM and cabinet member has resigned and been suspended. Unspecified allegations. He even claims to not know what they are.

And Clive Lewis MP is being investigated after a woman complained that" he gave my bum a big squeeze" at some Momentum event.

No one is safe, I tell you. At this rate, we won't have any politicians left by Christmas. Apart from Theresa May, Dianne Abbot etc and so forth.

Mind you, I have no idea what any of this has to do with Corbynomics, economics, or any kind of nomics. But it is a damn sight more fun than the Cochrane–Orcutt iteration.

Well at least none of the above have been reported to the police by his own party who then tipped off the press before telling him of his suspension.......ask Charlie Elphicke.... Who sits on the treasury committee:eek: He's now finding out what the establishment does to protect itself.

Moby

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There are reasons why this public outbreak of prurient stories has happened. Had the culture within political parties and Westminster, and in wider society allowed appropriate responses to these matters at the time, then we wouldn’t be where we are today. If it takes a media feeding frenzy to act on this, then that is no one’s fault except for the people who have opposed reform for many years.

ideally allegations would all be investigated in private, or at least, not in the media spotlight, but these allegations have been laid previously, and nothing happened. Why can’t female victims go public with their stories if their political masters have chosen to turn their backs on reasonable responses to abuse? The fact that we have accusations by media isn’t in itself something to be criticised – the fact that the accusers felt they had nowhere else to go other than the media should be the issue of concern. If the accusations are false, then there are legal remedies with serious potential consequences, but let’s not pretend the system was giving these women a fair hearing, ‘Trial by media’ is simply the comeuppance for decades (centuries?) of inappropriate behaviour. Like I said the establishment protects rich old grey men. Sometimes we have watershed moments. At some point, a particular case was likely to trigger something of an explosion of outrage.