Corbynomics: A Dystopia

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

Yep young adults today have no debt and have no problems finding somewhere to live. You are so out of touch. This will be the first generation poorer than the previous:-

This generation will inherit much more wealth than any generation past

In the UK the natives will mostly inherit fully paid off housing and then about the same again in unspent pensions/savings-accounts/land/commercial-buildings/gold/etc

The only generation that had it better 25 years ago were the migrants. That I can agree with. If you are a first generation migrant you probably would have had an easier time economically coming to the uk in 1992 than in 2017. Especially for London migrants back then they were housed quite quickly in free social housing because there was an excess in London.

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

Yep lets spend all our dosh on rocket technology and ignore the poor and starving. Perhaps we can send the poor to Mars and then we won't have to look at them or think about them.

Getting to mars is far more important than helping the poor*

You have no idea of what the reason is to getting to mars. It is to ensure the survival of the species itself

At some point in the future humans on earth will face an extinction level event. It may be an asteroid like the ones that killed off the dinos. It might be a new germ that kills off all great apes. It might be a particularly strong solar ejection that hits the earth. It might be a worldwide nuclear war. All those while very unlikely are not impossible. Having humans on mars means if the humans on earth die out the species continues.



* Also the poor are being helped thanks to free trade and capitalism. No amount of giving to the poor would have lifted the 3 billion poor in asia out of poverty they could only do it themselves which china has already achieved and India is well on the path to achieving

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

Yes lets change the rules so that your contention that the UK is number one country is true. It's one way of seeing the world. Makes life more tolerable I suppose;)

There are no ruels
I said the UK is a high wage country with full employment which is a fact.
I did not say the UK is the highest wage country in the world, that honor goes to Qatar
Not because Qatar has the best governance or freedom or human values but because they have one hell of a gas field and a small population to share it out among

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

True I suppose you could extend it even further and say how many 10 year olds are sent down the mines now or up the chimneys of the rich. I agree in absolute terms things have been worse..... thanks to people fighting for their rights through unions etc conditions improve.

That is so naive

Conditions improve as and when the economy can support it (driven by technology and productivity improvements) not because some lefty cries lets tax the rich and set up a union

antrobus

Moby wrote: »

True I suppose you could extend it even further and say how many 10 year olds are sent down the mines now or up the chimneys of the rich. ...

We don't have any mines. Certainly not coal mines.

And has been illegal to send children up chimneys ever since 1840. (Chimney Sweepers and Chimneys Regulation Act 1840)

That was Disraeli.

The answer would be zero.

Moby

Arklight wrote: »

Anyone culpable of sexual harassment should leave their post immediately, and I am sure it isn't just the Tories.

However I think we are all aware that you would have to be monumentally optimistic to assume that the Tories won't be the worst offenders, and it isn't Labour who are tottering in government with the opinion polls against them.

Fallon's statement gave him away. He said....'What was acceptable 15 years ago ....is no longer acceptable'! Really I always thought sexual assault has always been wrong! Also the view that the Tories can be pulled to the centre is somewhat flawed. For example on gay marriage over 50% of Tory MPs voted against the bill. Issues of misogyny aside I would not think Labour would get away with 50% of their MPs voting against such legislation. There are wrong 'uns in all parties but as you say....the abuse of power and bullying those perceived to be 'below them' does come more naturally to the tory type. In many respects there is a battle going on for the soul of the tory party that mirrors the one that is going on for the Labour party. However I can see the moderates in the Labour party accepting much of the Corbynista agenda now because in many ways it is just a matter of degree and the real issue is optics and competence, not really policy and values. Gavin Williamson's appointment is being cheered to the rafters by local Labour party members I know. He is not popular within the tory party and is clearly an example of Mayhem promoting one of her own weirdos rather than someone with experience to do the job. Penny Mordaunt seemed the obvious choice. Everything Mayhem touches now seems to turn to the brown stuff. Interesting times...who'd have believed it a few months ago!

Moby

Boredatwrork wrote: »

My post was in response (as was quoted clearly) and referenced below:
"I'm glad to say that more and more young people are beginning to see these well worn boomer tropes for what they are. 'This country' as you put it is actually far more than the self interested values of the typical flag waving tory. Sorry about that. I know it's hard to change."

Ad homninen attacks you say!, this whole thread is littered with you accusing people of this and that long before I turned up, a five minute glance back through this pages shows you clearly bring that in long before many others have in regards to trying to stereotype people. Even in the same sentence you are talking what you perceive as my principles, I and other have posted what we believe the right and left principles are, rather than try and learn/understand (no one demands you must agree), you would rather stick to your own prejudice. How is that any less bigoted, you are like a mouse in a maze continuity banging its head against the same wall.





I am not scared of Corbyn, personally I think he had his five minutes and he ended up 50+ seats below, by the time of the next election things will have changed, not to mention he is 68 years old, the age of retirement, how long has he got practically. My main criticism of him is hold over his cult of people who appear to have wandered into politics assuming his is some kind of messiah, the naivety of many of his followers that he is quite happy to exploit.





Who doesn't, Who has made that claim? That still doesn't detract from the principle that in life, for most you have to make your own luck.



Do you live on bread and water, did you downsize your home, and then give all your money to charities, or is it just talk like the rest of us, what steps have you made personally, please list them...I already asked this i the last post remember, twice in fact, you ignored them then, third time lucky perhaps.



The tax system is dynamic, and allows for external and external factors, it cannot be looked at as a single element, as it has a domino effect (why does this need pointing out), its not as simple as just raising for most wealthy. Why is it wrong in your opinion? I believe you have to be earning a minimum of £30k ish before you become anything more than a beneficiary in the first place.
The policy of austerity was to reduce the deficit in the main it has worked and saved future generations of further financial hardship (why are you against not shacking future generations with our own problems, seems a bit selfish), but once again we are back to the same point I and others have made to you.

Let me explain it to you again . Unless you are disabled (which I agree you then should get financial help from the state), there is very little reason for you not to pull yourself out of poverty in the UK.

Thousands of people do it every year, the jobs are here there are also millions of foreign people who come from much much worse situations have come here earnt and brought property, half of these don't have English as a first language, have little knowledge of the countries geographic/economy/laws ect, yet they have flourished, what separates them to anyone in the UK, apart from their immediate disadvantages?

Basically if you want to improve your lot in life, get a partner both work and don't have children too early. That's really all it takes to be a success here, "help to buy" schemes will get you on the housing ladder if you cant afford the traditional route, and self motivation will do the rest.

I think you are just repeating yourself Boredatwork. To be frank your posts are having the same effect on me as your username. If you think improving your lot in life is as simple as you posit above despite everything I say on this thread we have nowhere to go do we.

Boredatwrork

Moby wrote: »

I think you are just repeating yourself Boredatwork. To be frank your posts are having the same effect on me as your username. If you think improving your lot in life is as simple as you posit above despite everything I say on this thread we have nowhere to go do we.

If you accuse me of A, I then say, no Its B and here's why, then next post you are back to accusing me of A, then of course I am going to come back with the same thing :rotfl:It shows you are either not listening, misunderstanding or being deliberately dishonest, surely.

I never claimed it to be that simple, of course life has challenges, but if you can stick to that general template for the vast vast majority, it really is all that it takes, and a lot more preferable to not actually trying, which appears to be what your promoting.

I also note for a third time you are unable to list all the personal changes you have made to ensure the quality of life for future generations is intact, considering its all you seem to be banging on about and accusing others of being selfish and ignoring, I am a bit puzzled as to why you aren't chomping at the bit to list them, and show us all the way.
However, if all your life changing work boils down to is simply putting a tick on a ballot paper every four years and whining on a forum that other people aren't doing enough...well that says it all really.;)

Still waiting on the list..

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

I think you are just repeating yourself Boredatwork. To be frank your posts are having the same effect on me as your username. If you think improving your lot in life is as simple as you posit above despite everything I say on this thread we have nowhere to go do we.

Life in this country is easy

There are first generation migrants that arrived in their 20s with only the cloths on their backs and little to no English reading writing or speaking but worked hard and are now millionaires

Others first gen migrants who are middle class now. I know own chap who came here when he was 15. he was a goat herder from the age of about 10-15 on the hills of Syria. he now teaches at a London university. Another person I know came here in his 20s and worked washing dishes for nearly a decade now he is a GP.

We have a good economic model a good system.

Of course with 66 million people we will have drug addicts alcohol addicts wife beaters mentally deranged people those who have terrible habits and ways and all manner of other ills and problems. That is not prove that capatilism is broken that is proof that given a large number of people some of them will have problems.

We have a good economic model and a good system so much so that even first generation migrants will all their hardship and difficulties manage to create good stable fulfilling lives.

Its really sad when people like you don't stop for a moment to appreciate how good we have it. You project your own or your assumed failures onto the economic model when in reality the vast majority of peoples problems are self/family inflicted

Boredatwrork

Moby wrote: »

Fallon's statement gave him away. He said....'What was acceptable 15 years ago ....is no longer acceptable'! Really I always thought sexual assault has always been wrong! Also the view that the Tories can be pulled to the centre is somewhat flawed. For example on gay marriage over 50% of Tory MPs voted against the bill. Issues of misogyny aside I would not think Labour would get away with 50% of their MPs voting against such legislation. There are wrong 'uns in all parties but as you say....the abuse of power and bullying those perceived to be 'below them' does come more naturally to the tory type. In many respects there is a battle going on for the soul of the tory party that mirrors the one that is going on for the Labour party. However I can see the moderates in the Labour party accepting much of the Corbynista agenda now because in many ways it is just a matter of degree and the real issue is optics and competence, not really policy and values. Gavin Williamson's appointment is being cheered to the rafters by local Labour party members I know. He is not popular within the tory party and is clearly an example of Mayhem promoting one of her own weirdos rather than someone with experience to do the job. Penny Mordaunt seemed the obvious choice. Everything Mayhem touches now seems to turn to the brown stuff. Interesting times...who'd have believed it a few months ago!

Can you confirm it was sexual assault? I am not defending him, but as far as I know it was 'inappropriate behavior' and beyond touching Julia Hartley Brewers leg, which she is on record saying she hopes he didn't resign for that reason, there hasn't been any other public specific allegations. Like I said I am not defending him or what might get out, but that seems to be a bit of a tangent, and if we are turning it into a political football (how very compassionate of you), I'd be more worried about the alleged rape allegation from Bex Bailey at this stage.

Your character assination of a "tory type" is also pretty cringey, I guess however thats normal for "bigot types". Can I ask in that Brain of yours, do you consider your slander and stereotyping as progressive?