Corbynomics: A Dystopia

Moby

GreatApe wrote: »

Moby wrote: »

Germany is not particularly socialist in that 44% of GDP is government spending
That is what the UK was at in 2014 and I doubt you think we had a fantastic socialist government in 2014?



Yes the UK was also blessed with north sea oil a lot of it but since we are a large country compared to Norway or Sweden or Denmark it means our figures are comparatively small on a per capita basis. The UK output does not even meet half of our oil and gas needs our coal output for all intents is now close to zero (4 million tons pa which is nowt) and all of them are falling still.

That you are not aware of this fundamental difference shows how naive you are. Sweden and Norway in particular have so much natural resources that it is almost pointless looking at them as a comparison as what you are doing is comparing natural resources not if large government spending is good or not.

It is better to compare the UK to France



Yes my statement is easy to make and easy to prove.
UK GDP is aprox £30,000 per capita
That is high most the world have a much lower figure
It is even above most the EU and it is above the French (when the pound is above 1.12 euro which it is most the time)



Earth
Can you name another country you would prefer to live in?
And dont say Denmark or Germany because you can book a bus ticket to there today yet you dont.



The government control the government
Parlement controls the government
And every five years or less the people select the government

I know you hate it that the Tories won in 2010 in 2015 in 2017 but that is the system we operate in and it is a good system



Yes government can move taxes on the margins take a handful of billion here and give a handful of billion there. It does not chance the percentage of government vs the economy in a large way. What corbyn and yourself would like to do is swing the UK from about 42% of the economy as the government towards 55% of the economy as the government. That wont be possible and it wont even be populat with your pals becuase it will involve things like putting VAT to 25% including on food which you say you are against

While you think of 'just tax the rich more and give it to the poor like our hero robbin hood' you miss the fundamentals. How much of the economy should be controlled by the government? We are at 42% and were as high as 48% in 2010.



What do youu think Hammond is going to do, put VAT up to 25% on everything and increase the NHS budget by 20%? That would be significant but that is not what is going to happen



It is inevitable. Communist china gave the world what? Nothing. Capitalist America gave the world.....so much I dont even need to highlight it to you



China is not doing much different to what America or the UK did.
For instance much of Americas power stations were built under state ownership even to this day a lot of it is state mandated and regulated profit stations. Likewise UK did similar with its generation board and France with EDF which they still majority own etc

A quick google shows china government spending at only 25% of their GDP that is much lower than the UK and even lower than the USA

Also while china is a much better off country vs 20 years ago it is yet to be seen if they will fall into the middle income trap or go on to become a true ~$50,000 per capital economy.

And even if china was the richest country on earth I wouldnt want to live in a one party system where you can disappear without a trace one night doubt you would either



No thanks I know this country is a great country with good opportunities and lots of freedom I dont need a book to confirm it

Opinion not fact as usual and in your previous post you were saying how China was a good example of capitalism? Only this morning we see this sorry excuse for a Govmt missing all its NHS targets despite its protestations that 'the NHS is save in our hands', people on Universal credit roll out not receiving payments for six weeks, the universal credit helpline costing 55p a minute, whereas the line to report someone to allege benefit fraud costs nothing. It's complete naivety or willful denial to ignore the inequities I describe above. Your GDP figures mean nothing compared to the daily grind I see at work every day. As a country we are more divided than I've seen for many years. This is definitely not a country at peace with itself.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/17/sometimes-you-dont-feel-human-how-the-gig-economy-chews-up-and-spits-out-millennials

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/17/we-went-days-without-eating-properly-universal-credit-misery-inverness

Moby

Conrad wrote: »

Newsnight now, discussing over sensitive authoritarian progressives

Bellow no-platformed, as I say, the left eating its own guts

Discussing trigger warnings and safe spaces another newish leftist censorship tool

This has been going on in the US for sometime and the U.K. is catching up.

Yep Trump is sorting them all out isn't he.

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

Opinion not fact as usual and in your previous post you were saying how China was a good example of capitalism? Only this morning we see this sorry excuse for a Govmt missing all its NHS targets despite its protestations that 'the NHS is save in our hands', people on Universal credit roll out not receiving payments for six weeks, the universal credit helpline costing 55p a minute, whereas the line to report someone to allege benefit fraud costs nothing. It's complete naivety or willful denial to ignore the inequities I describe above. Your GDP figures mean nothing compared to the daily grind I see at work every day. As a country we are more divided than I've seen for many years. This is definitely not a country at peace with itself.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/17/sometimes-you-dont-feel-human-how-the-gig-economy-chews-up-and-spits-out-millennials

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/17/we-went-days-without-eating-properly-universal-credit-misery-inverness

We are a country of 66 million people there will always be people in a bad shape in a bad way mostly due to drugs or other addictions like gambling or mental illness

The average person however had good wages and good opportunity and lives a good life

Also the gig economy, things like uber, exists in Norway Sweden France etc
It is not a specific outcome of the UK economy model So why do you use it to try and crap on the uk system?

Conrad

Day in day out I meet ordinary workers building good and fulfilling lives.

The picture painted by Labour is far from the majority experience.

I met a trucker and auxiliary nurse this week, total income c£55k. Ok not a fortune, but not too bad and they've just enjoyed a lovely holiday in Portugal.

The mongers of doom live in a very strange world

Yes I also meet people on v low wages, but on the whole most are content to be building towards a promotion / are training on the side etc .

TrickyTree83

GreatApe wrote: »

We are a country of 66 million people there will always be people in a bad shape in a bad way mostly due to drugs or other addictions like gambling or mental illness

The average person however had good wages and good opportunity and lives a good life

Also the gig economy, things like uber, exists in Norway Sweden France etc
It is not a specific outcome of the UK economy model So why do you use it to try and crap on the uk system?

Because Moby is a revolutionary. Our very own Che Guevara.

Workers never make stupid choices or decisions. They are not to blame for their own personal indebtedness, neither are they to blame for their lack of opportunity. The corrupt capitalist regime is to blame for all of it.

Did I get it right Moby?

System

Conrad wrote: »

Day in day out I meet ordinary workers building good and fulfilling lives.

The picture painted by Labour is far from the majority experience.

I met a trucker and auxiliary nurse this week, total income c£55k. Ok not a fortune, but not too bad and they've just enjoyed a lovely holiday in Portugal.

The mongers of doom live in a very strange world

Yes I also meet people on v low wages, but on the whole most are content to be building towards a promotion / are training on the side etc .

Yes, not many days go by without you telling us what rich and fulfilling lives everyone in the UK has. Bloody EU and lefties holding us back.

antrobus

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Because Moby is a revolutionary. Our very own Che Guevara.

No, he's a Labour loyalist.:)

Or to be more exact, he's loyal to Labour if he thinks they can win.

michaels

What is wierd is that Moby didn't think much of Corbyn's politics until they proved popular....

Moby

michaels wrote: »

What is wierd is that Moby didn't think much of Corbyn's politics until they proved popular....

No Antrobus had it right. I didn't think he was competent enough to win and I agreed with the MPs you need power to change things and he looked to be taking Labour to disaster. I changed my mind about him during the campaign and to be fair so did many people. I underestimated him and also didn't consider that the centre ground may be shifting. With a 20 point lead in the polls the tories smeared him day after day and claimed to be strong and stable...... Now look at them! The latest poll puts Corbyn 6 points ahead. Survation - the only one that got the election right!
Full Voting Intention was: LAB 44% (+2); CON 38% (NC); LD 7% (-1); UKIP 4% (NC); SNP 3% (-1); GRE 1% (NC); PC 1% (NC); AP 2% (NC)

Moby

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Because Moby is a revolutionary. Our very own Che Guevara.

Workers never make stupid choices or decisions. They are not to blame for their own personal indebtedness, neither are they to blame for their lack of opportunity. The corrupt capitalist regime is to blame for all of it.

Did I get it right Moby?

I agree there should always be personal responsibility but if you think there is equality of opportunity you are naive:-

https://youtu.be/v2xGoeKsiDA


.....but everythings OK because Conrad just met a couple who had a nice holiday in Portugal!