Corbynomics: A Dystopia

GreatApe

Arklight wrote: »

Maybe some of you Tories can explain to me why you repeatedly fail to understad that millions of us are prepared to vote for Corbyn not because he is a decent, principled man (although he is) but because he is the only politician that promotes what we actually believe ourselves.

The reason Labour's doorstepping has been so successful isn't because we are brainwashing people when they are opening their front door. It's because the policies that Labour offers, jobs, schools and housing, are what people want. But all they hear about from the Daily Mail and Murdoch Press is that Jeremy Corbyn is a communist who is going to nationalise supermarkets and abolish money, while simultaneously borrowing so much of it the UK will go broke.

He's also apparently a cowardly pacificst who will capitulate to Russia, while contemporaneously being a viscious IRA terrorist. It's not surprising this chow mein of nonsense is easy to dispel. Expecially when you have the Tories explaining that the fact someone worked 8 hours for Uber last month and had their benefits sanctioned means they aren't unemployed.

Again with your post there is all the laughing and sneering about robotics, because you aren't one of the millions of people who's jobs have either disappeared, or are at threat from automation.

Some of the people on this forum seem to think that they are Warren Buffett because they had the good fortune to be born in the 1950s where you got to leave school and join a trade without having to incur £50k in university debt, to start a career doing jobs that simply don't exist any more for young people. Followed by being handed a council house or two by Thatcher.

Yeah robots, haha hilarious. Because no one gives a monkeys about all the van drivers and semi skilled workers who are going to be thrown on the scrapheap in the next 20 years who are well aware that their bosses have every intention of using their disprportionate wealth to purchase machines to replace them, to the point that their labour has to be cheaper than buying a machine.

Maybe you can take some of that back to your scoffing Tory friends, because it's the reason you are going to lose the next election.

Its a sad state of affairs that the country as a whole might lean towards your way of thinking and vote in an imbecile. Robots automation and technology are the way to much better living standards even the communist Russians understood and believed that so much so they were world leaders in some sectors like rockets for quite some time. Too bad their system is intrinsically inefficient

Anyway think of the UK economy as an army of 32 million workers.
We dedicate roughly 3 million workers to heathcare
We dedicate roughly 3 million workers into constructing and maintaining the vehicles
We dedicate roughly 3 million workers to growing and processing and distributing the food
etc
etc

If robots or software make for instance 1 million of our healthcare workers redundant we dont just throw away these 1 million people. What happens is we still have 32 million workers and we put them to work doing the next most important need or want. This is why we have had 300 years of progress yet today we still have full employment for those who care to work and we have much easier lives than people of the past so much so that if you are in decent heath you could expect to only work half of your life. Your first 22 years as a child in school and then from 66 to 90 as a pensioner thats more than half your life not working. Even your working life is only 88,000 hours which is just 10% of your life you are at work and many peoples work is now so easy they have dozens of hours a week to spend on facebook youtube and MSE fourm during work hours.

Life is good in the west thanks to all the jobs that were destroyed by technology
The alternative are 3rd world countries with little to no technology

GreatApe

.string. wrote: »

But not of BS it seems.

It seems that every time Corbyn opens his mouth he makes a fool of himself He's so used to railing about wicked capitalists to his adoring fans that he's lost touch with any need to includes a touch of reality in what he says.

Following May's report on the status of Brexit he started off by querying May on the very things she had been talking about and explaning. He simply hadn't cottened on that she had just answered the questions he was putting. It was truly cringe worthy.

This "robot" thing is merely the latest silliness. Maybe he imagines that robots look like some sort of transformer creature working at a bench in direct replacement of a human being; I really don't know what he has in mind except that it's not real.

I've worked in robotics myself (space robotics) fir many years and know durectly that a robotic system is not something that is developed by a single-discipline group of individuals it's a multi-discipline business, often requiring cooperation between companies, and requires serious capital, not a letter from Ethel of Bournemouth and a Government grant to a trade union.

For the life of me, I can't understand why people rate that guy.

The proper lefties I meet just seem to think the government is infinitely powerful but is just unwilling to fix all the problems they believe the country has. Its quite something to behold you'd think they would understand that lefty parties have been in power before in this and other countries if it was as simple as gaining power and hey presto all the poors problems go away then it would have been done by now!

It is also comical that the left dont seem to understand why people slowly start voting tory as they grow up. The reason is they start to manage their own finances and budgets and start to see the world as it is and lose all respect for those who promises they can magic up goods/services out of thin air if you just vote for them.

Cakeguts

Arklight wrote: »

Maybe some of you Tories can explain to me why you repeatedly fail to understad that millions of us are prepared to vote for Corbyn not because he is a decent, principled man (although he is) but because he is the only politician that promotes what we actually believe ourselves.

The reason Labour's doorstepping has been so successful isn't because we are brainwashing people when they are opening their front door. It's because the policies that Labour offers, jobs, schools and housing, are what people want. But all they hear about from the Daily Mail and Murdoch Press is that Jeremy Corbyn is a communist who is going to nationalise supermarkets and abolish money, while simultaneously borrowing so much of it the UK will go broke.

He's also apparently a cowardly pacificst who will capitulate to Russia, while contemporaneously being a viscious IRA terrorist. It's not surprising this chow mein of nonsense is easy to dispel. Expecially when you have the Tories explaining that the fact someone worked 8 hours for Uber last month and had their benefits sanctioned means they aren't unemployed.

Again with your post there is all the laughing and sneering about robotics, because you aren't one of the millions of people who's jobs have either disappeared, or are at threat from automation.

Some of the people on this forum seem to think that they are Warren Buffett because they had the good fortune to be born in the 1950s where you got to leave school and join a trade without having to incur £50k in university debt, to start a career doing jobs that simply don't exist any more for young people. Followed by being handed a council house or two by Thatcher.

Yeah robots, haha hilarious. Because no one gives a monkeys about all the van drivers and semi skilled workers who are going to be thrown on the scrapheap in the next 20 years who are well aware that their bosses have every intention of using their disprportionate wealth to purchase machines to replace them, to the point that their labour has to be cheaper than buying a machine.

Maybe you can take some of that back to your scoffing Tory friends, because it's the reason you are going to lose the next election.

On the subject of robots. How do you think your car was manufactured?

I suppose you also think that people who were born in the 1950s and 60s should retire when they reach retirement age so that there will be jobs for younger people?

Thrugelmir

Some of the people on this forum seem to think that they are Warren Buffett because they had the good fortune to be born in the 1950s where you got to leave school and join a trade without having to incur £50k in university debt, to start a career doing jobs that simply don't exist any more for young people. Followed by being handed a council house or two by Thatcher.

Many of us left school and never attended University. We went to full time work. Studied at night school to gain the qualifications. We learnt our trade from the bottom up. Did the filing, made the coffee, went to the Post Office to buy the stamps or get the franking machine refilled. We became Union Reps. Went on strike. Became disillusioned with the narcissistic nature of the Unions. Along came Mrs T. She was our model. Hard working. Self made. Went I was short of cash. I took a second job in a pub in the evenings. Then became Treasurer of a large ex-servicemens club.

We felt no sense of self entitlement. Unlike many today. Returning to that era of Labour politics makes my body shudder. I'm not blue blood. My family were working class. Became middle class by hard graft. Not Government handouts. Or compensation claims.

Sapphire

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Many of us left school and never attended University. We went to full time work. Studied at night school to gain the qualifications. We learnt our trade from the bottom up. Did the filing, made the coffee, went to the Post Office to buy the stamps or get the franking machine refilled. We became Union Reps. Went on strike. Became disillusioned with the narcissistic nature of the Unions. Along came Mrs T. She was our model. Hard working. Self made. Went I was short of cash. I took a second job in a pub in the evenings. Then became Treasurer of a large ex-servicemens club.

We felt no sense of self entitlement. Unlike many today. Returning to that era of Labour politics makes my body shudder. I'm not blue blood. My family were working class. Became middle class by hard graft. Not Government handouts. Or compensation claims.

Same here, more or less (and I too did an evening job in a pub at one time). My wages were very low, and even though I lived with my grandparents I found it hard to manage. They were not well off, and neither were my parents, so could not help me financially – and it never even occurred to me that they should. It was far better for me to work hard and be productive, even in 'low-rung' jobs, and to work my way up from there over a long period of time. It was also rather enjoyable, because I was learning about different aspects of life and work all the time, while doing a variety of jobs. No one did 'gap years' then, either, even if they went to university (only a small proportion of people did that, and those that did generally studied 'useful' academic subjects that resulted in decent work).

I also have a vague memory of all the strikes in the 1970s – it was grim and tough, when it came to many people's standard of living.

Thrugelmir

Sapphire wrote: »

No one did 'gap years' then, either, even if they went to university (only a small proportion of people did that, and those that did generally studied 'useful' academic subjects that resulted in decent work).

My older sister. Went to Uni. Then spent a further 6 years to qualify as a town planner. No gap years travelling.

GreatApe

Lots of working class folk vote Tory
Nearly half the country votes Tory or other right of center parties.
Its another mistake of momentum to think they have the working class vote
The working class vote is probably what swings most elections.

The middle class and upper class vote Tory.
The benefits class and migrant class vote labor
The working class are probably the most split and the swing of the working class swing the election results.

I am hoping the working class don't let that loon into power. He will promises the moon on a stick and the young are naive enough to fall for it but hopefully the swing vote working class aren't buying it.

economic

This country will be finished if corbyn came Into power.

Cakeguts

My parents were reasonably well off. We lived in a small 4 bed detached house. We had camping holidays in the UK and sometimes abroad for 2 weeks in the school summer holidays. Flying and hotels were too expensive.

We had loose covers on the furniture when the orignal covers wore out. Who has those these days?

Who goes outside in the dark in the middle of winter these days to get several hods of coal to put on the fire?

2nd hand cars. New cars were too expensive.

Lot of things that people now feel they are entitled to have were much too expensive for people years ago.

My grandmother lived in a 1937 3 bed semi that she and my grandfather bought new. They didn't have central heating or a phone or a fitted kitchen. There was a bathroom and toilet upstairs and an outside toilet downstairs at the back. There was a seperate heater for water in the kitchen and bathroom because there was no boiler. Later they had a boiler added in the back bedroom. If you can remember this, what people have these days is luxury.

We have a lot of entitled people now who feel that they should have whatever they want without going without anything.

I do remember some parents saying that they were going to give their children everything that they themselves didn't have and I remember thinking that this was a bad idea because the children would have no idea how much work something took to get and they wouldn't learn that they couldn't have everything they wanted. I really don't think that taxes should pay for parents to give their children branded clothing because the parent is unable to say "no" to the child.

What really annoys me is the way that some people use child poverty as a reason to pay more in benefits. What annoys me about this is that people have children by choice. No one stands over someone and forces them to have a child when they don't have anywhere to live or a job to pay for a child. No one ever mentions the disabled in our communities who have never had a choice to be disabled. I have never heard a politician say that they will build more homes for the disabled or more supported housing for the disabled. Some disabled people do not have the choices that most people feel entitled to have. They can't have children, they can't live independently, there isn't enough supported housing for people to live away from their parents, they can't afford holidays or cars. Compared to many children living in so called poverty, single disabled people have nothing and no way of getting anything.

antrobus

LHW99 wrote: »

I think this was the argument against the Spinning Jenny?

Luddism.

Some people have always feared change.

Economic growth is driven by changes to trade and technology. They always lead to workers losing their jobs. It's an example of what Schumpeter called 'creative destruction'. The workers find new jobs in the new industries.

State capitalists like Corbyn always want to 'protect jobs', and use government intervention to prop up declining industries. Which is one of the reasons why state capitalism fails to deliver growth.