Corbynomics: A Dystopia

Moby

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Let's remind ourselves what socialists are like before painting pictures.



Next time before getting on your high horse. Best to remember that politics has no boundaries when it comes to conduct of oneself. Many people are inherently greedy. That's their nature.

So your point is Scargill was a bad man and because he was a socialist ...that means socialism is bad. That's a tad simplistic. I agree however people are inherently greedy that's why I'm a socialist. That's why we need state regulation. I do know this as well people who get their hands dirty and put their lives at risk and don't spend their days as a desk jockey perhaps appreciate good health and safety standards and the backing of a union that will defend them. Ask the fire fighters!

cogito

Moby wrote: »

Just because you invest money in something doesn't automatically mean you should have control over what results. That's simply not democratic and gives undue influence to people with money who speculate. You may trust them to do the right thing....I don't! Besides there's a difference between investing in widgets that you can choose to buy or not but everyone needs to travel, needs access to clean water and power. Wanting to have state control in those areas is hardly radical.

Utter drivel. No one would ever invest in anything if they thought that some left wing idiot is going to hijack their product. And you should look up the dictionary definitions of speculate and invest and try to comprehend the difference.

Moby

GreatApe wrote: »

Think of it this way. There are over 100 countries in the world many of them are more left wing than the UK. Can you name one of these countries that look and feel like the utopia you want?

If these other lefty nations still have billionaires still have poor people still have non perfect healthcare still have mediocre railways and power grids still have substandard housing and still have unemployment and low wages then what us dear leader corbyn going to do that one of the 50 other lefty nations weren't smart or capable enough of doing?

Corbyn might a true communist and if you feel that is what you or he want then out with it

Sweden, Denmark, Germany are good examples and I believe we could do better than we are. This country is class ridden and the rich hold too high a proportion of the wealth and control too much of the distribution of resources. Call Corbyn a communist, a mad man, a terrorst sympathiser, whatever....he is striking a chord with more and more people and that's good. Even if he never wins an election he is changing the terms of the debate. The tories are having to consider policies they would never normally countenance because of his cut through. People hate him because of it. I think he's a good man.

Cakeguts

Moby wrote: »

So your point is Scargill was a bad man and because he was a socialist ...that means socialism is bad. That's a tad simplistic. I agree however people are inherently greedy that's why I'm a socialist. That's why we need state regulation. I do know this as well people who get their hands dirty and put their lives at risk and don't spend their days as a desk jockey perhaps appreciate good health and safety standards and the backing of a union that will defend them. Ask the fire fighters!

Scargill was a bad man because he expected people less well off than himself to fund his expensive lifestyle when he had retired. So living off poorer people to keep him in luxury. I don't think socialists do that do they? So that means that he actually wasn't a socialist? What is someone who expects poorer people to pay to keep them in a life of luxury?

Moby

cogito wrote: »

Utter drivel. No one would ever invest in anything if they thought that some left wing idiot is going to hijack their product. And you should look up the dictionary definitions of speculate and invest and try to comprehend the difference.

Don't be so patronising. I'm telling you that speculation and investing is not the utopia you think it is. Just because you are sold on the capitalist dream doesn't make it the solution for our problems you think it is. Big changes happen when Govmts direct things. The speculators gave us the 1929 crash....Roosevelt gave us the new deal!

Cakeguts

Moby wrote: »

Sweden, Denmark, Germany are good examples and I believe we could do better than we are. This country is class ridden and the rich hold too high a proportion of the wealth and control too much of the distribution of resources. Call Corbyn a communist, a mad man, a terrorst sympathiser, whatever....he is striking a chord with more and more people and that's good. Even if he never wins an election he is changing the terms of the debate. The tories are having to consider policies they would never normally countenance because of his cut through. People hate him because of it. I think he's a good man.

I suppose that you do realise that Corbyn is one of the rich? So far I don't recall him showing how rich people like him are going to give up a proportion of their salaries to help poorer people or to retire as soon as they get a state pension to allow younger people to get a job?

Moby

Cakeguts wrote: »

Scargill was a bad man because he expected people less well off than himself to fund his expensive lifestyle when he had retired. So living off poorer people to keep him in luxury. I don't think socialists do that do they? So that means that he actually wasn't a socialist? What is someone who expects poorer people to pay to keep them in a life of luxury?

Who gives a fig about Scargill....what's this obsession with people who represent what you hate. I'm arguing ideas not the failure of individuals to follow them properly!

Moby

Cakeguts wrote: »

I suppose that you do realise that Corbyn is one of the rich? So far I don't recall him showing how rich people like him are going to give up a proportion of their salaries to help poorer people or to retire as soon as they get a state pension to allow younger people to get a job?

He's a far better example of living by his values than any other politician I know. He's a decent man who is wrongly maligned by ignorant people.

Cakeguts

Moby wrote: »

He's a far better example of living by his values than any other politician I know. He's a decent man who is wrongly maligned by ignorant people.

The problem I have with him is that the rules all apply to other people and not to him or Momentum. I will never forget Momentum using Jimmy Saville to attack another party and there was no condemnation from Corbyn about this. It was quite clear that neither Momentum or Corbyn cared at all for the most vulnerable people in our society whose lives were ruined by that monster. They were more interested in offering free university education to other rich middle class people like Corbyn. Who pays for rich middle class families to have free university education? Not those poorer people again like the ones expect to pay for Scarghill to live in luxury? I always thought that socialists worked for the benefit of the poor? Corbyn seems to be working for the benefit of the rich middle classes people like himself. The rich middle classes get richer through his policies and the poor get poorer paying for them?

cogito

Moby wrote: »

Don't be so patronising. I'm telling you that speculation and investing is not the utopia you think it is. Just because you are sold on the capitalist dream doesn't make it the solution for our problems you think it is. Big changes happen when Govmts direct things. The speculators gave us the 1929 crash....Roosevelt gave us the new deal!

Are you seriously comparing Corbyn with Roosevelt? And why pick on Roosevelt? Why not include Stalin, Mao and others whose governments directed things and made big changes? The socialist dream has hardly been a solution for peoples' problems in those countries and others that have tried it.