Corbynomics: A Dystopia

mwpt

Alan_Brown wrote: »

There is very little 'innovation' occurring. The supermarkets put the squeeze on the suppliers who put the squeeze on the producers (such as farmers), who feel the squeeze and either go under or they employ destructive practices such as battery farming or intensive agriculture to cut their bottom line. The result is that the consumer ends up with vegetables and grain that contains little or no nourishment and is poisoned by pesticides and meat that is pumped full of steroids and antibiotics. The ultimate result is an increase in cancers and neurological damage (Parkinsons and Alzheimers) in consumers and those living near farms.

We put up with this because the wealth delusion makes us think that company profits are more important than public health and that we 'as wealthy people or prospective wealthy people' gain from these increased profits.

Well, all of that is a statement of opinion that is a whole can of worms which I'm not willing to debate now. But you're missing the point which is that you have the choice. You can go back to buying organically grown produce direct from local farmers, there are tons of these options in the UK available to you. Supermarkets offer another choice to a different set of customers. Wonderful, isn't it? I presume you're one of those that buys direct from the smaller farmers at higher cost much like in the old days when things were better.

Moby

MobileSaver wrote: »

Yes they are, it's quite incredible that you have never met them but apparently know better than me or my girlfriend what they are really like.

It obviously offends your sensibilities but you need to get out more... there really are lots of people like that in this country!

Remember you know nothing about me either......but I'm Welsh and know the area you refer to well .....I also work in public services and come across many disadvantaged families on sink estates. You see that's what they are.....not malingerers. They don't have a genetic predisposition to laziness. If you lived in their situation ....you'd very probably be the same...so would I. Their circumstances are heavily influenced by their environment and govmt policy over the last few decades. To generalise without context is just lazy abuse and lacks empathy.

Alan_Brown

Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »

Which specific nutrients are lacking from supermarket vegetables and grains?

All of them. Less so in organic produce.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-depletion-and-nutrition-loss/

http://www.sustainabletable.org/207/soil-quality

https://econ.washington.edu/sites/econ/files/old-site-uploads/2014/06/2010-Environmental-Impacts-of-Ag-Technologies.pdf

Alan_Brown

Conrad wrote: »

I knock the endemic sponging all around me. Another classic yesterday, guy, on paper poor, owns a caf! in N London. Takes his cash earnings over to Turkey where he's from. Later transfers it back to UK. Showed me his UK account with £180k in it, never taxed.


Looking to buy yet another property.


I was guessing everything he said to me before he said to include - 'and we wont want the Missus benefits coming up anywhere will we' and of course as if the most normal thing in the world he replied 'oh yes, must keeping wife benefits on the quiet'

Knocking people who take benefits to which they are not entitled to is different to knocking the entire benefit system or those who need to claim them. Benefits of course include national health care, state pensions and other services.

However, using a few cases of misuse and corruption to undermine the whole system is a tried and tested method of those who want us to buy into the whole wealth delusion and remove these expensive safety nets. A lot of people jumped on board to bash disabled claimants, many of these claimants were assessed by Atos as being fit for work and annoyingly dropped dead shortly afterwards. These same 'bashers' are the people who would be relying on the services they bash if they were unfortunate enough to become disabled due to an accident or illness. Very few people are rich enough to fully fund themselves if they have a disability, yet so many shout about the 'malingerers'. They are deluded into thinking they are above benefits and could self-fund through any eventuality.

Alan_Brown

westernpromise wrote: »

Remind me again what I earn.

I don't need to know what you earn. I suspect that if you are on a money saving forum, you're not one of the top 1% of the world's wealthy and therefore would rely on benefits such as the NHS (for example for any high cost health conditions like cancer).

Am I wrong?

MobileSaver

Moby wrote: »

not malingerers. They don't have a genetic predisposition to laziness. If you lived in their situation ....you'd very probably be the same...so would I.

I never said they have a genetic predisposition to laziness. The ones I know personally are malingerers, they could work but choose not to instead letting the state pay their way for them.

No I would not be the same in their situation. I am not from that area but my girlfriend is; she like me is a worker and we've worked hard to get where we are today. Her attitude to life is chalk and cheese to that of her relatives and as mentioned previously she is extremely embarrassed by their abuse of the system.

I am sure there are some on Merthyr Tydfil estates that are simply down on their luck and things haven't gone their way. However for you to suggest that none are parasites abusing the system is just you generalising and allowing your leftist views to cloud your judgement.

westernpromise

Alan_Brown wrote: »

I don't need to know what you earn. I suspect that if you are on a money saving forum, you're not one of the top 1% of the world's wealthy and therefore would rely on benefits such as the NHS (for example for any high cost health conditions like cancer).

Am I wrong?

Yes, hopelessly - but I guess you're used to that.

westernpromise

MobileSaver wrote: »

I never said they have a genetic predisposition to laziness. The ones I know personally are malingerers, they could work but choose not to instead letting the state pay their way for them.

No I would not be the same in their situation. I am not from that area but my girlfriend is; she like me is a worker and we've worked hard to get where we are today. Her attitude to life is chalk and cheese to that of her relatives and as mentioned previously she is extremely embarrassed by their abuse of the system.

I am sure there are some on Merthyr Tydfil estates that are simply down on their luck and things haven't gone their way. However for you to suggest that none are parasites abusing the system is just you generalising and allowing your leftist views to cloud your judgement.

It must also be said that Labour local government and hence Labour authority control of education have all been aimed at keeping these people badly educated, benefit-dependent, and thus perpetually, irredeemably poor. This keeps them voting Labour, because being badly educated, they believe Labour's propaganda that it's the party for the poor. It is, but only in the sense that McDonald's is the place for a Big Mac. So the mugs keep voting themselves more of the same.

Cynon Valley is 71% state dependent, which makes the entire area economically roughly similar to the agriculture of the USSR - although the comparison's not quite right because although private farms in the USSR produced 28% of the food they only had 1% of the land.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Soviet_Union#Agriculture

- which is the public sector for you.

Alan_Brown

westernpromise wrote: »

Yes, hopelessly - but I guess you're used to that.

Not really but if it makes you feel better to use personal attacks than to discuss things rationally then go for it.

Well if you are a millionaire who doesn't need any of the state benefit systems (which includes the NHS, etc.) then good for you. It does beg the question of why you're on a moneysaving website and why you feel it necessary to pour scorn on those less financially fortunate than yourself?

MobileSaver

Alan_Brown wrote: »

It does beg the question of why you're on a moneysaving website

You are (apparently) new around here, some of us have been on MSE for 10 years or more and a lot can change in that time. I'm certainly a lot wealthier now than when I joined this site. Regardless, do you think millionaires don't like to save money too? (Hint: they do! )

Alan_Brown wrote: »

why you feel it necessary to pour scorn on those less financially fortunate than yourself?

I can only see scorn being poured (quite rightly) on malingerers... do you think we should be offering them tea and cake instead?