Corbynomics: A Dystopia

gadgetmind

Mistermeaner wrote: »

If anything this is proof the deficit reduction needs pursuing more aggressively. Public spending and borrowing must be cut

Absolutely. We can never be competitive internationally with our current levels of inefficiency, benefits and wastage.

Do you think the population is stupid enough to believe things would be better under Corbyn?

The 2015 election results pretty much answer that question.

Moby

Mistermeaner wrote: »

And the economy would have been flying under labour?

If anything this is proof the deficit reduction needs pursuing more aggressively. Public spending and borrowing must be cut

Do you think the population is stupid enough to believe things would be better under Corbyn?

Do you speak on behalf of the population then? Despite your evident certainty, there is no consensus about austerity and how it should be tackled. It's naive to think a tory majority of twelve seats indicates otherwise. It's only the current political system which gives them power. Things can change and they can change quickly. Murdoch's fag boy 'Call me Dave' will be out soon and who will replace him? the wicked witch, bumbling Boris or little pasty faced George.....who by the way was recently roasted by Angela Eagle in his stand in Question Time. My money is on George! Of course it all depends on what happens in the referendum. No-one is convinced by 'call me Dave's 'hard bargaining'. He'll win nothing of substance and the fact is everyone knows that no matter what happens as a result of the negotiations he'll be recommending YES......such rank hypocrisy! Everyone knows it. Talk about schisms in Labour because it suits your own bias.....but don't forget to notice the crap in your own backyard at the same time;).

mwpt

Moby wrote: »

Do you speak on behalf of the population then? Despite your evident certainty, there is no consensus about austerity and how it should be tackled. It's naive to think a tory majority of twelve seats indicates otherwise. It's only the current political system which gives them power. Things can change and they can change quickly. Murdoch's fag boy 'Call me Dave' will be out soon and who will replace him? the wicked witch, bumbling Boris or little pasty faced George.....who by the way was recently roasted by Angela Eagle in his stand in Question Time. My money is on George! Of course it all depends on what happens in the referendum. No-one is convinced by 'call me Dave's 'hard bargaining'. He'll win nothing of substance and the fact is everyone knows that no matter what happens as a result of the negotiations he'll be recommending YES......such rank hypocrisy! Everyone knows it. Talk about schisms in Labour because it suits your own bias.....but don't forget to notice the crap in your own backyard at the same time;).

I agree with a fair bit of this. Cameron won't win many, if any, concessions in Europe. And the last bit, they're all hypocrites. The ones who might not be will never get into power.

I have not followed this Corbyn stuff closely. He comes across as a well meaning fairly decent guy (note: I have no idea bout his past). I'm sure he isn't though, he is a politician after all. But I don't think his ideals are workable in the current world and if he did by some miracle win the GE next time, he'd be under enormous pressure and would just water down most of what he currently campaigns on.

Mistermeaner

Moby wrote: »

Do you speak on behalf of the population then? Despite your evident certainty, there is no consensus about austerity and how it should be tackled. It's naive to think a tory majority of twelve seats indicates otherwise. It's only the current political system which gives them power. Things can change and they can change quickly. Murdoch's fag boy 'Call me Dave' will be out soon and who will replace him? the wicked witch, bumbling Boris or little pasty faced George.....who by the way was recently roasted by Angela Eagle in his stand in Question Time. My money is on George! Of course it all depends on what happens in the referendum. No-one is convinced by 'call me Dave's 'hard bargaining'. He'll win nothing of substance and the fact is everyone knows that no matter what happens as a result of the negotiations he'll be recommending YES......such rank hypocrisy! Everyone knows it. Talk about schisms in Labour because it suits your own bias.....but don't forget to notice the crap in your own backyard at the same time;).

Nice rant. Rambling and incoherent. See Greece for how anti austerity works.

There is difference between austerity as a choice and living within ones means because you have to. Despite being dubbed austerity all Osbourne is aiming for is the latter.

What is Labour's plan(s)?

gadgetmind

mwpt wrote: »

I don't think his ideals are workable in the current world

Or any world. Even when fences and walls are erected to keep people in, financial barriers imposed to prevent capital flight, and (ultimately) tanks used to suppress the population, these kind of policies simply don't work over any meaningful time frame.

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

or little pasty faced George.....who by the way was recently roasted by Angela Eagle in his stand in Question Time.

Angela did do very well a QT

however, I guess you can only make inappropriate personal remarks as otherwise, you are reduced to supporting IRA lovers, people who think Mao murdering 50 million innocent people is 'OK in the scheme of things', and people who aren't even committed to protecting the peoples of the UK against terrorists (well as they support the IRA I guess you could say they are being consistent).

Maybe try to discuss actual policies rather than personal attacks on peoples appearance.

Moby

mwpt wrote: »

I agree with a fair bit of this. Cameron won't win many, if any, concessions in Europe. And the last bit, they're all hypocrites. The ones who might not be will never get into power.

I have not followed this Corbyn stuff closely. He comes across as a well meaning fairly decent guy (note: I have no idea bout his past). I'm sure he isn't though, he is a politician after all. But I don't think his ideals are workable in the current world and if he did by some miracle win the GE next time, he'd be under enormous pressure and would just water down most of what he currently campaigns on.

It's nice to read a balanced view for once! I agree with you....Corbyn's ideals are not workable in the UK and he does need to sharpen up his opposition but my point is that doesn't make him the 'stupid', 'dangerous' 'communist'..... whatever label fits the prejudices of the various accusers on this thread.
I found this article to be a pretty balanced view on this:-
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/23/10-ways-jeremy-corbyn-can-improve-as-labour-leader

mwpt

Moby wrote: »

It's nice to read a balanced view for once! I agree with you....Corbyn's ideals are not workable in the UK and he does need to sharpen up his opposition but my point is that doesn't make him the 'stupid', 'dangerous' 'communist'..... whatever label fits the prejudices of the various accusers on this thread.
I found this article to be a pretty balanced view on this:-
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/23/10-ways-jeremy-corbyn-can-improve-as-labour-leader

I tend to be suspicious of massively polarised views. In almost every case my views fall somewhere in the middle. Maybe that makes me wishy washy *shrug*.

I'm not sure what to make of that article. It almost seems like they want to go back to the same Miliband formula, dressed up as Corbyn.

For starters, attacking the Tories is what Labour campaigned on last time. I just cannot trust a party that doesn't present what I see as a workable plan but instead relies on rubbishing the oppositions plan. And maybe the electorate don't trust that either.

Instead of continuing to try to frame austerity as an evil ideology, why not try to win over the voters with a workable alternative? My guess is that the Tories have won that particular battle. Most working class people now view austerity as being frugal, something they've all had to do themselves. They can relate to it. They don't trust complicated sounding economic articles trying to show them how stupid they are for believing in living within their means. Labour need to come up with a strong core message that appeals to these people, as I believe working class can be swung.

Note: I am not a strong Conservative supporter, I just happen to agree with more of their policies than of Labours'. I didn't vote either though.

Moby

I agree....it's about realisitic choices....but don't forget Osborne's current deficit reduction plan is almost the same as what Darling was intending to do had Labour won in 2010. Also look at the result of the election in Spain a few days ago.....the right's austerity agenda was defeated. Also the Greek's have voted in a left wing govmt which has given the people back their self respect as a starter.....it hasn't turned into the disaster the right wing commentators were predicting there. The encouragement of new thinking should be encouraged imo. The arrogant Ya boo deriding of Corbynomics, so common on this thread, says much about the personal prejudices and corner shop economics of Corbyn's critics. He is actually a breath of fresh air in our cynical, backbiting political system who should be encouraged not derided imo.

gadgetmind

Yes, it will be interesting to see how things go in Greece and Spain as we could have oh-so-easily gone down the same path if things had gone differently in 2010.