MSE News: Calls to 084, 087, 09 and 118 to be clearer, but prices vary wildly

soptin2

Warning to anyone using 0844 access no. to make cheap international calls. As from 1/715 they charges will soar. I have used such a no. to call family in Australia for last 2yrs using 0844 no. This was charged at 15p connection charge then 2p a min for rest of call. IE. 1hr call to a mobile in aust. cost total £1.40 approx. Made call yesterday 1hr 30mins cost on bill now £8.57 plus vat £10.20. 3 days ago this call would have cost £2.40 approx. BT charged me £8.40 inc.(7p min) rest of call £2.20. I was stunned I had not understood fully what new charges meant luckily I checked my I'll on line next day I dread to think what my bill would have been over the month without realising this astronomical change.

thewinelake

Ian, I know that they say that if you repeat something often enough then people will believe it, but really!!!

Ian011 wrote: »

Many users of 0845 numbers have spent the last decade or more repeatedly stating that they receive no financial benefit from these calls all the while benefitting from the 2p per minute Enhanced Termination Rate. From 1 July 2015 they will have to state the level of this benefit as their Service Charge (as well as being able to select any rate between 1p and 7p per minute).

With all due respect (i.e. none at all) this is bo11ox!!!!!!!! - the service charge is what the terminating telco gets. How much of that they pass on the poor schmucks answering the calls is yet another element of mystery.

Take for example GCICom. They've gone for the highest possible service charges that regulations will allow, but they're not passing any more on to their customers (i.e. the companies who advertise the 08 numbers). In many cases, this will be pretty much zero ppm.

The only issue on which I think you and other Ofcom apologists have a point is that this will essentially kill off 08 numbers, many of which have been abused over the years. Who gives a !!!! about the babies when there's so much bathwater? ;-)

Ian011

Even where nothing is passed on to the service provider, the revenue provided by the caller to the telecoms company is contributing to paying off the additional call handling and call forwarding costs inherent in the use of a non-geographic number. In other words, the called party pays less than they otherwise would have paid for the service because they are being subsidised by callers. The proof is that they usually get the 084 number free of charge, but the matching 034 number incurs running costs of up to several pence per minute.

Another scheme widely seen is the revenue contributed by the caller being used to pay off the lease for switchboard equipment that comes with the telecoms deal. This is essentially how several thousand GP practices were signed up, between 2005 and 2013, to use 0844 numbers for patient communication with their doctor. GPs were told they were not profiteering because the money was used to pay for the system that was installed. Declaration of the Service Charge reveals the scam for what it is and the clear violation of the "free at the point of need" principle.

For those service providers that are being ripped off by their telecoms provider, declaration of Service Charge should come as a revelation. Many will begin to be thinking... "the caller is paying 7p per minute Service Charge and we get a 1p per minute payout; where's the rest of it going?" Declaration and clear visibility of Access Charges should also lead them to question whether exposing the caller to up to 52p per minute call costs just so they can collect a couple of pennies of revenue is a useful way of doing things. In general, it isn't.

thewinelake

100% with you on your last statement!

Babbler

Hello

Not sure if right place to post.

My mum uses an 0844 number to call internationally through bt for 1p a min.

I checked her bill today and since 1st july she has been charged 17 quid for 2 weeks so far in july when her normal bill is 4 quid max a month.

We called them. They have increased 0844 prices significantly! :mad:.

They said an email was sent in june with details in small print. Were unapologetic. Min price is now 9p a min or something plus connection.

So if you use one of those 1p a min services be warned. We have cancelled bt today and moved to talk talk.

Ian011

Before 1 July 2015, an obscure Ofcom regulation called the NTS Retail Condition forced BT to effectively have a zero Access Charge for calls to 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers. That regulation, exclusive to BT, has now been lifted. From 1 July 2015, BT's Access Charge is 9.58p per minute.

TalkTalk's equivalent Access Charge is 5p per minute.

In both cases you'll also pay a Service Charge of up to 7p per minute for calls to 084 numbers and up to 13p per minute for calls to 087 numbers. The amount depends on the exact number called and must be declared by the service provider everywhere their number is advertised.

Connection fees are now banned on calls to 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers.

If you know both the Access Charge and the Service Charge, this tool will calculate the call cost: http://giffgaff.screet.co.uk/call/

If you had stayed with BT you could have investigated indirect access providers such as 18185, 18866, 1899, etc.

You can still look at dial-through providers using 020, 03 or 080 numbers.

zagfles

Babbler wrote: »

Hello

Not sure if right place to post.

My mum uses an 0844 number to call internationally through bt for 1p a min.

I checked her bill today and since 1st july she has been charged 17 quid for 2 weeks so far in july when her normal bill is 4 quid max a month.

We called them. They have increased 0844 prices significantly! :mad:.

They said an email was sent in june with details in small print. Were unapologetic. Min price is now 9p a min or something plus connection.

So if you use one of those 1p a min services be warned. We have cancelled bt today and moved to talk talk.

There's going to be a lot of "bill shock" as a result of this. "No hassle" callthroughs have basically been killed by Ofcom, now rather than simply dialling a number you'll probably have to pay upfront by some other method and hope the callthrough actually works and you haven't wasted your tenner or whatever you paid up front.

Babbler

My mum used one of thoses since the change. The charge was significantly more. The message at start of call says 1p per min but it wasnt. Who is to blame bt or telesavers? Hmmm

zagfles wrote: »

Just checked the main telestunt numbers, which you can use to call to most of Europe, USA, Australia, NZ etc.
0844 8 618 618 - 1p/min on BT, 2.14p/min on TalkTalk.
0844 200 45 45 - 0.5p/min on BT, 1.57p/min on TalkTalk.

So just over 1p/min "access charge" on TT currently. Well under the lower end of your range.

On TT will now treble in cost, and they have the lowest access charge of all providers. On BT will be 10 or 20 times the cost.

zagfles

Babbler wrote: »

My mum used one of thoses since the change. The charge was significantly more. The message at start of call says 1p per min but it wasnt. Who is to blame bt or telesavers? Hmmm

Neither - it's Ofcom! It's their solution to a problem you didn't know you had - apparently you were being misled by them not charging you lots of money to connect your 0844 call.

What the message should have said is something like "service charge 1p per min plus your phone company's access charge".

You are obviously supposed to know of the top of you head what your phone company's access charge is. After all everyone knows that, surely?

(PS I'm being facetious, not getting at you, even some telcos don't know their access charge , or at least aren't telling their customers!)

Doc_N

Another fine mess you've got us into, Ofcom - gee thanks!