MSE News: Calls to 084, 087, 09 and 118 to be clearer, but prices vary wildly

zagfles

Ian011 wrote: »

Ofcom originally designed the system so that all 084, 087, 09 and 118 calls would be handled in the same way. This also covered whether certain calls would be inclusive or not: all or nothing.

Under intense pressure from BT, and at the last minute, they relaxed this rule to allow each provider to decide which ranges they want to include, such as 0845 and 0870, or all 084, etc.

BT includes 0845 and 0870 numbers with a fair usage of one thousand minutes of calls per month. Each caller is allowed to make calls with Service Charges of up to £130 per month without paying for them. This is the payment that BT has to make to the joint benefit of the organisations being called and their telecoms provider. As the caller hasn't paid the Service Charge for the calls they made, this cost is added to everyone else's bill.

BT does not include 0843, 0844, 0871 and 0872 numbers even though they have the exact same level of Service Charges as 0845 and 0870 numbers.

T-Mobile includes both the 084 and 087 range of numbers. Two packages are available. One offers 300 minutes, the other offers 1000 minutes. Both allow the caller to run up Service Charges many times higher than the package price. That additional cost is borne by all other T-Mobile customers.

So much for simplification! So consumers don't just need to know the access and service charge, they need to know what number ranges their teclo has decided to include!

So let's get this straight - telcos are allowed to include any number ranges they want in inclusive minutes? What if they just want to include the access charge for 08 numbers in inclusive minutes, but not the service charge?

That would make much more sense. As such, I'm guessing Ofcom don't allow it...

Ian011

zagfles wrote: »

So much for simplification! So consumers don't just need to know the access and service charge, they need to know what number ranges their teclo has decided to include!

That's not really any different from how things have been since 2009 when 0845 and 0870 numbers first became inclusive in call plans.

zagfles wrote: »

So let's get this straight - telcos are allowed to include any number ranges they want in inclusive minutes? What if they just want to include the access charge for 08 numbers in inclusive minutes, but not the service charge?

That would make much more sense. As such, I'm guessing Ofcom don't allow it...

There's no need to guess. All the details are in Ofcom's statement and in the various General Conditions.

zagfles

Ian011 wrote: »

That's not really any different from how things have been since 2009 when 0845 and 0870 numbers first became inclusive in call plans.

Yes but I thought this latest "simplification" was supposed to sort that.

There's no need to guess. All the details are in Ofcom's statement and in the various General Conditions.

Is there not? Let's have a look at it then:

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/simplifying-non-geo-no/final-statement

Sorry We are currently carrying out essential work on our servers and some of our online services are unavailable.

:rotfl:

victor2

Ian011 wrote: »

There's no need to guess. All the details are in Ofcom's statement and in the various General Conditions.

The first document is 77 pages, plus 346 pages of Annexes, and the link to it starts with a correction:

Please note that previously in Annex 4 (the guidance on service charge price points), the price points at the level of the 09 service charge caps had incorrectly been stated exclusive of VAT at £3 per minute and £5 per call (whereas all other suggested price points were calculated inclusive of VAT). We have now corrected these prices in Annex 4 so that, consistent with all other SC price points identified in the Annex 4 guidance, they are stated inclusive of VAT at £3.60 per minute and £6 per call.

Only a "team" of would-be politicians could produce something like that. :rotfl:

silvercar

I've just spoken to Virgin about this. I have the XXL telephone deal, that includes calls to 0845 but not calls to 0844.

THX758

I was calling my mother, who is living in Belgium, twice a month, and for that I was using discount dial which gave me a discounted charge of 0.5p a minute. My monthly BT calls were less than a fiver, which was great.
After Discount Dial "hiked" the price to 1p a minute, I changed to Dial 123 which was still 0.5p a minute. I have used them for the first time last saturday and intended to check how much I was charged for the call.
I have checked today and to my surprise I had a call that costs me £10. Under the calls this was written :

*Calls to service numbers starting 084, 087, 09 and 118 consist of a 9.53p per minute access charge from BT, plus a service charge set by the company you called. See bt.com/ukcalling for more details.

Is that new? Does that mean it would be useless now to use those numbers for cheap calls?

Is there other ways I could call her for cheap on her landline?

Ian011

No-one has a 0.5p per minute Service Charge so the 0.5p per minute price that you saw on the other website was a failure to update their website with the new price. Service Charges run in 1p increments up to 7p per minute for 084 numbers and up to 13p per minute for 087 numbers.

For more than a decade, BT's retail call prices for calls to 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers have differed from everyone else. This was because Ofcom imposed regulation solely on those calls such that BT was not allowed to make margin on call origination to those particular numbers. That regulation, the NTS Retail Condition, was scrapped on 1 July 2015 as BT no longer holds the near 100% market share that it had when the regulation was first introduced.

Since 1 July 2015, the call price has been split into two parts each separately declared. BT has set its Access Charge for these calls at 9.53p per minute, similar to other landline providers.

With the large increase in the overall cost of these calls from a BT landline it is time to look at dial-through providers who offer an 020, 03 or 080 number or at indirect providers such as 18185 and so on.



See also:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5219071
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5219756
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5292529

THX758

Thanks for the explanation. Now I know why the hike is happening. All the providers I saw so far have an 084 number, anyone knows another similar provider with 02, 03 or 080 numbers? Is 18185 working with BT landline?

Heinz

THX758 wrote: »

Is 18185 working with BT landline?

Yes, yes, yes.

Can be used (via the 0808 1 703 703 number) from a mobile too.

Grouchy

I call US/Canada fairly often. Always used Justcall using a BT Landland and costs were very reasonable. 1 p/minute plus BT connection fee which was small.

Just got my Bt phone bill and had a bit of a shock. Apparently Ofcom changed rules on dial through calls amongst other things on 1 July this year (must have missed the small print and don't remember anything on the news). Upshot for me, BT are now charging something 7p per minute for 0844 numbers plus a connection fee.

So a 62 minute call to US cost me £8. (used to be a fraction of that, less than a pound I think).

Has anyone found an alternative?

Thanks