Britain is living through the best time ever

lessonlearned

Tbh the level of whinging on MSE is beyond belief.

It is the only social media I have ever engaged with, the only site whose forum I visit, So cannot be sure if the views I see expressed are representative of the general population. If they are, then God help us all.

Sometimes I cannot believe what im reading.

I can only assume that the whingers have nothing to compare with and maybe have not read much history nor travelled much beyond the UK.

Or maybe the Aussies are right and we are just "Whinging Poms".

For sure sitting around feeling sorry for yourself and blaming everyone is not the way to improve ones situation in life.

And yes I do appreciate that some people may be too sick or disabled to effect any real change. I'm not talking about those in genuine need who cannot help themselves but there does seem to be an awful lot of people who expect the State to pick up the tab for everything.

The last few years were rough for me. My husband got sick, I cared for him, he died last year. I made myself sick looking after him and we were pushed almost to the point of bankruptcy - which is how I came to MSE having seen Martin on the TV.

I fought back, straightened out my finances and am now working hard to get fit and healthy again.

There's nothing special about me, if I can do it anyone can.

When life knocks you down you have two choices.

Stay down and bewail your fate or drag yourself up and fight back.

You stand a better chance in the UK of getting back on your feet with the help of the safety net of the welfare system than you would in the free for all you find in most countries across the rest of the world.

gazter

ukcarper wrote: »

But what happens to that layabout he can't pay his mortgage so he's evicted the council have a duty to rehouse him, no social housing available so he's put into private rental property and we end up paying a least twice as much in LHA as we would have had to if he was still in social housing.

And i wonder how many RTB end up back in social housing. Anywhere between 0.1% and 1%.

RTB is a success because it takes a household who would most likely always be in social housing, and lets them buy their home. This immediately takes them out of poverty, and it keeps them out of it, permanently.

They may choose to stay in that home, or move 'up the ladder' and buy somewhere else.

If there was no RTB that social home would still have been occupied by that poor household.

The housing problems we have now are not due to RTB but to massive increases in demand for property overall due to population increases and changes in household makeups.

ukcarper

I do find it quite offensive that anyone on here with even slightly left leaning tendencies is label a lazy benefit loving whinger. It's quite possible to see that the benefit system is in a mess and needs reforming but not agree with the way the present government are going about reforming it.

ukcarper

gazter wrote: »

And i wonder how many RTB end up back in social housing. Anywhere between 0.1% and 1%.

RTB is a success because it takes a household who would most likely always be in social housing, and lets them buy their home. This immediately takes them out of poverty, and it keeps them out of it, permanently.

They may choose to stay in that home, or move 'up the ladder' and buy somewhere else.

If there was no RTB that social home would still have been occupied by that poor household.

The housing problems we have now are not due to RTB but to massive increases in demand for property overall due to population increases and changes in household makeups.

I'm not sure that RTB removes people from poverty if you are in poverty you would not be able to get mortgage to buy property.

lessonlearned

RTB must a boon for many, helping them to get started.

The joke is that for many rent will cost far more than mortgage payments.

My sons mortgage is £267 per month. The identical house next door is let out at £550 per month. For most FTB it's the deposit which is the stumbling block not the monthly payments. RTB goes some way in addressing this.

UK Carper - I don't think it's anything to do with Left or Right - it's about unreal expectations.

Not all conservatives are cold hearted capitalists who only want to trample the poor and needy. Not all labourites are selfless Angels.

I do think some - not all - of those on the left are a liittle naive.

The State purse is not bottomless, there has to be a limit on what we can spend on welfare etc.

Yes we could cut back on defence - but that might make us too vulnerable.

Yes we could cut back on oversees aid, but we only spend less than 1 per cent of GDP on it.

We could cut back further on the police budget - dare we risk it.

And so it goes on..... There are no easy answers im afraid.

But to get back to the premise of the thread .........

I genuinely believe that the UK is probably one the best countries in the world in which to live and that those of us that were lucky enough to have been born here hit the jackpot.

To those who are disenchanted and unhappy with your lot then perhaps emigration is the best way forward. I know lots of people who have emigrated, some have benefitted and are very happy in their new homelands, For some it didn't work out and they came back to the UK.

For me, I am happy here. It is the land of my birth and I am proud of my country.

Graham_Devon

ukcarper wrote: »

I do find it quite offensive that anyone on here with even slightly left leaning tendencies is label a lazy benefit loving whinger. It's quite possible to see that the benefit system is in a mess and needs reforming but not agree with the way the present government are going about reforming it.

Hey Carper, I'm with you on this one. This whole thread is bizzare.

It started off with an article suggesting it's never been better in the UK - based on misinformation (one could state lies, but I'm being kind).

It seems picking up on this misinformation or indeed highlighting that this "never been better" scenario only effects a percentage of the population has led to extreme statements that it's better in the UK than Syria and that everyone who isn't chasing the last 10p isn't doing all they can and is somehow a whinging lazy parasite.

It's a thread of all out extremes, which I suppose is at least apt considering the article in post 1. I don't know why people are even talking about benefits - this thread has nothing to do with them.

Context in this thread has gone out of the window.

lessonlearned

ukcarper wrote: »

I'm not sure that RTB removes people from poverty if you are in poverty you would not be able to get mortgage to buy property.

Its true if you not earning then are you not going to be able to get a mortgage. But then that was always the case.

But, obviously depending on where you live and how affordable property is in thAt area, then RTB can be a means to help give people stability and increase prosperity.

Sorry to use my son as an example again.

He earns just over the minimum wage, around £13k' clearing just under £1k a month. His mortgage payment is £267. It is tight but doable. He would not be able to live in his house if he was paying the market rent if £550 - not without government help in the form of HB or WTC.

As it is he is standing on his own two feet, paying his way without any help from benefits. He is managing to save a little and has started a pension fund. He has security of tenure and stability. He has taken out insurance to cover him in the event of sickness or redundancy.

He is beginning to prosper.

Property ownership confers stability and security which in turn leads to increased prosperity. For those that cannot raise a deposit RTB can be the stepping stone they need.

Graham_Devon

lessonlearned wrote: »

Its true if you not earning then are you not going to be able to get a mortgage. But then that was always the case.

But, obviously depending on where you live and how affordable property is in thAt area, then RTB can be a means to help give people stability and increase prosperity.

Sorry to use my son as an example again.

He earns just over the minimum wage, around £13k' clearing just under £1k a month. His mortgage payment is £267. It is tight but doable. He would not be able to live in his house if he was paying the market rent if £550 - not without government help in the form of HB or WTC.

As it is he is standing on his own two feet, paying his way without any help from benefits. He is managing to save a little and has started a pension fund. He has security of tenure and stability. He has taken out insurance to cover him in the event of sickness or redundancy.

He is beginning to prosper.

Property ownership confers stability and security which in turn leads to increased prosperity. For those that cannot raise a deposit RTB can be the stepping stone they need.

As you have used your son as an example, do you mind elaborating a bit?

Sounds like the mortgage is around 50-60k from the repayments. Did he buy an extremely cheap house? Or did he have a large chunk to put down on the house?

Seems to be doing a hell of a lot with £13k. Might be do-able in an old mining town in the welsh valleys or somewhere to buy a house that cheap but I'm not sure where else - unless he bought years ago.

ukcarper

I know people who have bought their council house and some who haven't if you can afford to buy it makes perfect sense and I don't blame people for buying, but I don't think the act buying will take them out of poverty because if they were in poverty then wouldn't be able to buy. People in council houses have security of tenure and pay below market rent.

JencParker

lessonlearned wrote: »

RTB must a boon for many, helping them to get started.

The joke is that for many rent will cost far more than mortgage payments.

My sons mortgage is £267 per month. The identical house next door is let out at £550 per month. For most FTB it's the deposit which is the stumbling block not the monthly payments. RTB goes some way in addressing this.

UK Carper - I don't think it's anything to do with Left or Right - it's about unreal expectations.

Not all conservatives are cold hearted capitalists who only want to trample the poor and needy. Not all labourites are selfless Angels.

I do think some - not all - of those on the left are a liittle naive.

The State purse is not bottomless, there has to be a limit on what we can spend on welfare etc.

Yes we could cut back on defence - but that might make us too vulnerable.

Yes we could cut back on oversees aid, but we only spend less than 1 per cent of GDP on it.

We could cut back further on the police budget - dare we risk it.

And so it goes on..... There are no easy answers im afraid.

But to get back to the premise of the thread .........

I genuinely believe that the UK is probably one the best countries in the world in which to live and that those of us that were lucky enough to have been born here hit the jackpot.

To those who are disenchanted and unhappy with your lot then perhaps emigration is the best way forward. I know lots of people who have emigrated, some have benefitted and are very happy in their new homelands, For some it didn't work out and they came back to the UK.

For me, I am happy here. It is the land of my birth and I am proud of my country.

It's not just the deposit but the salary is insufficient. Funny that it's not insufficient to pay rent though. House prices shot up ever since the banks started taking two full salaries into account and increasing the multiple - when we bought it was three times first salary and half of second salary and that was it. The increase of available borrowing simply meant that people paid higher prices - and those prices have remained but the banks have gone back to the strict salary multiple of before. You have to be working in the City and be part of a couple to buy in the south east now. And yet, as you say, they are paying more for rent than they would for a mortgage.