How Much is a Corbyn?

Generali

cells wrote: »

Those who vote will probably not change how they vote much (although what UKIP voters will do is unknown). Those who don't vote in large numbers probably will be much more likely to vote for him than not especially the young 18-25 age group

But even if he gets in he doesn't inherit dictator powers he needs to get laws through which means anything controversial could be blocked by the blairites

I suspect that his tolerance of dissent will be rather less than the tolerance of his dissent. Extremists don't generally like other voices. Look at the SNP whip at Westminster as an example.

cells

Generali wrote: »

I suspect that his tolerance of dissent will be rather less than the tolerance of his dissent. Extremists don't generally like other voices. Look at the SNP whip at Westminster as an example.

What can he do its not like he can fire an MP who doesn't vote for him and he will be a one term PM which will mean his last 1-2 years or so will be weak as the party starts to gravitate towards the next guy. Or he might even do a Tony and leave early. I suppose he can try put pressure on the local labour parties to deselect the MPs he doesn't like next time around but he won't be thrre next time around and I suspect thry would say f.u anyway

Plus I suspect the parties guage how their MPs would vote on certain ideas well before they consider putting something forward.

So unless he can get a majority of his owb MPs to back him his radical ideas won't pass and he wont put them forward else he will look a fool when hisbown larty blocks it.

of course this is assuming there are a good few blairites who would block him. I reckon most people are quote flexable and if the mood in the labor party changed a lot of blairites would change (maybe just acting in herds or peer pressure)

Anyway I dont think this mans a joke imo he is a whole level more capable and likeable on a bad day thab Ed ever was om his good days

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

I suspect that his tolerance of dissent will be rather less than the tolerance of his dissent. Extremists don't generally like other voices. Look at the SNP whip at Westminster as an example.

It's called party unity Gen. The SNP spent many, many years split between fundamentalists and gradualists.. It cost them big time and many wasted years of in-fighting. They learned their lesson well from that. Labour will have to do the same..

Are you widening your 'extremist' definition to include Labour voters that prefer Corbyn now too ? Or just Corbyn himself ? Wow lol ! If Labour want to oppose and win votes in Westminster, they'll have to learn to get along if Corbyn wins. At least they won't have to bother much about pleasing loads of Scottish Labour MP's this time round, so that's one less thing to worry about.

And hot on the heels of 'vile Cybernats'... we now have 'vile Corbynista's..

NeilMackay ‏@NeilMackay 11 hrs11 hours ago I hear the Sunday Times are planning to do quite a number on Corbyn supporters tomorrow...

SNP/Yes voters could've written the script for this !

Shakethedisease

cells wrote: »

What can he do its not like he can fire an MP who doesn't vote for him and he will be a one term PM which will mean his last 1-2 years or so will be weak as the party starts to gravitate towards the next guy. Or he might even do a Tony and leave early. I suppose he can try put pressure on the local labour parties to deselect the MPs he doesn't like next time around but he won't be thrre next time around and I suspect thry would say f.u anyway

Plus I suspect the parties guage how their MPs would vote on certain ideas well before they consider putting something forward.

So unless he can get a majority of his owb MPs to back him his radical ideas won't pass and he wont put them forward else he will look a fool when hisbown larty blocks it.

of course this is assuming there are a good few blairites who would block him. I reckon most people are quote flexable and if the mood in the labor party changed a lot of blairites would change (maybe just acting in herds or peer pressure)

Anyway I dont think this mans a joke imo he is a whole level more capable and likeable on a bad day thab Ed ever was om his good days

I expect that all those Labour MP's who are aghast at the thought of Corbyn in charge will also have to listen to what their constituents are saying on the doorsteps and in their own surgeries. They'd probably do better to listen to what those people are saying rather than polling and the odd 'focus group'. And put personal feelings aside when doing so. Part of Labour's probs in Scotland were that most people hadn't had any contact with or seen their local MP or representatives for years. And certainly not face to face.

Moby

Generali wrote: »

You could start here:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-foreign-policy-antisemitism

Back when Sinn Fein was the political wing of a terrorist organisation that had a shot at blowing me up a couple of times:



Hamas and Hezbollah aren't exactly friends of the UK.

Is that it;) The Queen shook Adams hand a few weeks ago. Is she a terrorists friend as well

Generali

Moby wrote: »

Is that it;) The Queen shook Adams hand a few weeks ago. Is she a terrorists friend as well

Dealing with Mr Adams in the 1980s when he was in charge of a group whose stated aim was the violent overthrow of the state is rather different to shaking hands with a former enemy.

I'm quite surprised that you can't tell the difference.

antrobus

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It's not 1983 anymore...
...

People were saying he same thing in May. 'It's not 1992, ya know.'

Moby

Generali wrote: »

Dealing with Mr Adams in the 1980s when he was in charge of a group whose stated aim was the violent overthrow of the state is rather different to shaking hands with a former enemy.

I'm quite surprised that you can't tell the difference.

Don't be suprised because I don't accept the basis of your argument. Surely to you Adams would always be a terrorist? Fact is many politicians were 'dealing' with Adams in the 80's through back channels. It's just that they wouldn't admit it openly and Corbyn did! How do you think the peace process started. To his credit Major made moves as well. It could be said Corbyn was a visionary:p
By the way some reportage here especially for Clapton to precis:-
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/15/jeremy-corbyn-campaign-scotland-corbynmania

antrobus

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I expect that all those Labour MP's who are aghast at the thought of Corbyn in charge will also have to listen to what their constituents are saying on the doorsteps and in their own surgeries. ....

Some of them already have, and have put down on paper what it was that their constituents are saying on the doorsteps

See: Never Again
http://www.fabians.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Never-Again-Lessons-from-Labours-key-seats.pdf

Apparently what their constituents were actually saying was that they were not going to vote Labour because they thought Labour would spend too much money, would not reform the welfare system, and would not do anything about immigration.

Mistermeaner

What is so frightening about Corbyn is that people seem to believe that his ridiculous policies are (I) acheivable and (ii) would be beneficial

It's almost as if there is a collective a amnesia about 'the good old days' even though they werent better and that by backing corbyn we go back to the golden years (that weren't golden) or British gas, British telecom, British rail, mining, ICI, shop stewards, unions etc

He seems to be invoking some sort of blitz spirit that makes people think if they club together they can get a 'fairer' deal - this may once have had its time but that approach delivered what it did which is why we are where we are - corbyn almost wants to reverse Thatcher - what he and his supporters don't see is that the world has moved on and for brittons to have the excellent quality of life we enjoy we need to compete as a nation in a global free market. If we make our domestic market not free our global competitiveness and attractiveness dips, our buying power goes with it and everything gets very very expensive - suddenly we can't afford all the nice things we want.

If socialism worked it would have worked and we would all be copying the eastern block - why is the opposite happening?

Any attempts to now 'socialise' the value derived from free market economics will see us fall off the value train and go backwards very very quickly - you have to keep peddling hard to even keep up nowadays with our ever increasing wage demands and aging population.

Ironically if the nhs was as bad as people make out it would actually be better for us generally as people wouldn't live as long.