How Much is a Corbyn?

MS1950

antrobus wrote: »

What's the question?

Is it about vetting? Because MI5 does vet potential politicians, and if you are deemed a "security risk" you tend not to be offered a government job. Goodness knows what would happen if a potential PM was judged a security risk.

Chris Mullen wrote a novel suggesting what might happen – that was (twice) made into a TV series:

"Harry Perkins, an unassuming, working class, very left-wing Leader of the Labour Party....becomes Prime Minister..... The priorities of the Perkins Government include dissolving all newspaper monopolies, withdrawal from the North Atlantic Alliance, removing all American military bases on UK soil, unilateral nuclear disarmament, and true open government. Newspaper magnate Sir George Fison, with allies within British political and civil service circles, moves immediately to discredit him, with the United States the key, but covert, conspirator. The most effective of the Prime Minister's domestic enemies is the aristocratic Sir Percy Browne, Head of MI5, whose ancestors "unto the Middle Ages" have exercised subtle power behind the scenes....It provides an intimate view of the machinations of a particularly British political conspiracy".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Very_British_Coup

Generali

Moby wrote: »

What exactly is your evidence for this?

You could start here:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-foreign-policy-antisemitism

Back when Sinn Fein was the political wing of a terrorist organisation that had a shot at blowing me up a couple of times:



Hamas and Hezbollah aren't exactly friends of the UK.

antrobus

Generali wrote: »

The question is which (if any) leader of HM's Loyal Opposition was denied access to military/intelligence information because they can't be trusted not to give it away?...

I suspect that if there ever was an opposition leader who couldn't be trusted, then he would not have been let into the fact that he wasn't being told.

Generali wrote: »

...My guess is none or perhaps MacDonald or one of those earlier Labour leaders.

Perhaps George Lansbury (1932-1935) - pacifist, wanted unilateral disarmament? But then again, perhaps a proper briefing on German rearmament might have helped persuade him to resign in 35.

Other than that, I can't think of any previous Labour leader that was known to have hob-nobbed with anybody that might have been considered as the 'enemy'.

MS1950

Generali wrote: »

You could start here:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-foreign-policy-antisemitism

Back when Sinn Fein was the political wing of a terrorist organisation that had a shot at blowing me up a couple of times:



Hamas and Hezbollah aren't exactly friends of the UK.

And within a relatively short period of time first the Tory and then Labour governments were talking to the same people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_peace_process

And more recently of course both the Queen and Prince Charles have shaken their hands and had conversations with them.

As for talking to Hezbollah or any other organisations in the middle east - as former Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin is quoted as saying:

“You don't make peace with friends. You make it with very unsavoury enemies”.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/y/yitzhak_rabin.html

A principle which would also apply to talks with Sein Fein/IRA.

However, of course Rabin was subsequently assassinated by a right wing zionist fanatic for his efforts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Yitzhak_Rabin

Generali

MS1950 wrote: »

And within a relatively short period of time first the Tory and then Labour governments were talking to the same people:

Mr Corbyn wasn't in a position to make peace or war. He was just another idiot leftie making common cause with other left wingers no matter the horrors that they committed.

Shakethedisease

Well the latest poll it seems the wider electorate seem to like him too. Surprisingly enough, he did really well will UKIPers.

Jeremy Corbyn is more popular than the other Labour leadership candidates with the wider electorate and fares particularly well with Ukip supporters as well as those from his own party, a Survation poll suggests....

.....Among Ukip voters, 39% of them liked him the most, higher than the 38% of Labour voters who said so. But just 22% of Conservatives liked Corbyn, compared with 25% who preferred Andy Burnham.

Ukip and Labour supporters appeared especially keen on Corbyn, ranking him the highest for being the most likely to take the Labour party in the right direction, having the best ideas about the future of the UK, caring the most about helping the British people and making the best leader. In contrast, Conservatives opted for Burnham on most measures.
Corbyn scored highest for seeming to be in touch with ordinary people at 57%,

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/14/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-most-popular-candidate-voters-all-parties?CMP=twt_a-politics_b-gdnukpolitics

Wonder if he'll bring some Kippers back to the Labour fold. There's a lot of votes to be had there. It was UKIP that did the biggest damage to Labour in a lot of areas in England. He's quite popular in Scotland as well, though he avoided ( sensibly ) getting drawn into much in the way of constitutional issues over the last few days. But didn't seem to know what was a reserved power and which was devolved in a few speeches.

I think he might do a 'Sturgeon' with the wider electorate in all honesty. They're wheeling out Gordon Brown (again) to rail against him I see... there will be a 'Vow' next.

antrobus

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Well the latest poll it seems the wider electorate seem to like him too. Surprisingly enough, he did really well will UKIPers.....

That nice Mr Foot was similarly quite popular when he got elected leader in 1980. Indeed, not long afterwards Labour was running at 50% in the opinion polls, and the revolution seemed imminent. He still got his behind whupped in 1983, mind you.:)

michaels

Generali wrote: »

You could start here:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-foreign-policy-antisemitism

Back when Sinn Fein was the political wing of a terrorist organisation that had a shot at blowing me up a couple of times:



Hamas and Hezbollah aren't exactly friends of the UK.

I am sure that was just a meeting of bierdo's anonymous in 1975...although given that being hirsute has become de rigueur for hipsters perhaps this is just another example of Corbyn being ahead of his times?

MS1950

Generali wrote: »

Mr Corbyn wasn't in a position to make peace or war. He was just another idiot leftie making common cause with other left wingers no matter the horrors that they committed.

Well 'The Gandhi Foundation' thought that his overall contribution was worthy of their 'International Peace Award' in 2013.......

“The Trustees of The Gandhi Foundation agreed to offer him our International Peace Award in recognition of his consistent efforts over a 30 year Parliamentary career to uphold the Gandhian values of social justice and non‐violence. Besides being a popular and hard‐working constituency MP he has made time to speak and write extensively in support of human rights at home and world‐wide. His committed opposition to neocolonial wars and to nuclear weapons has repeatedly shown the lack of truth in the arguments of those who have opposed him”.

http://gandhifoundation.org/2014/01/09/the-gandhi-foundation-international-peace-award-2013/

Shakethedisease

antrobus wrote: »

That nice Mr Foot was similarly quite popular when he got elected leader in 1980. Indeed, not long afterwards Labour was running at 50% in the opinion polls, and the revolution seemed imminent. He still got his behind whupped in 1983, mind you.:)

It's not 1983 anymore...

This to me is more like the SNP campaign after the referendum ( unexpected polls showing an increase in support ).. the endless, never happen, never happen, oh it might happen, let's start a media campaign saying Sturgeon is 'the most dangerous woman in Britain' and run articles about her cutting the hair off her sister's Cindy doll... oh no, it looks like it will probably happen, lets wheel out Gordon Brown to offer the 'Vow plus' yadda yadda...

Nothing dented the momentum. Imo, the same is happening for Corbyn too. His support keeps growing at unprecendented rates anyway. It all feels very familiar to those of us in Scotland. And if he can do it with ordinary Labour voters, past and present. He can certainly do it for the wider electorate. Most especially if Ukippers are 'warming' to him. IF he gets the chance since a lot of Labour 'higher ups' aren't keen on this direction, so we'll have to see how that one goes. It's a very interesting time. One that certainly didn't seem possible a few months ago.

* I say this as an SNP voter who can see the big dangers he poses to the SNP in terms of winning votes back from them. Would've been far better for us if it had been Cooper or Kendall this was happening for. But that's politics for you.