Using wrong rail ticket

dizzygran

Hi. Im new here today as I have done something and would like some advice. A friend told me about this site and instructed me to contact Martin Lewis who has many helpers who can put you in the right direction.

All I want or hope is that someone else has had a similar experience to me and can give me some words of comfort, or maybe a slap on the wrist.

3 days ago I bought a ticke tto travel on the train from Leeds to Scarborough, I booked online but mistakenly put in the wrong date, I did not know this fact until later today when I went to the railway station and put into the ticket machine me ref number. The machine gave me my ticket and along with my 3 year old grandson boarded the train as usual. As we almost approached Scarborough the ticket inspector came around for tickets so on producing mine he said to me that it was 2 days out of date and being quite rude an unhelpful said I could have been using this ticket for several days. I informed the man that I had only got the ticket today from the machine, which it did say on the counter ticket. Anyway, I should have been travelling on the train on the 5th not the 7th. I said to the ticket guard that I was very sorry but as the machine gave me the ticket I had no reason not to think it was out of date, yes human error on my behalf putting in the wrong date. If the machine had refused to give me the ticket due to being out of date I would have had options stood on the platform. The guard was very unhelpful and quite rude to me. He said I had 2 option give him almost £30 or he would take my details and I would receive word from the train owners I guess. The ticket value for that train was £11. I refused on the principle that I had paid (yes my error putting in wrong date) but as the machine did not refuse to give me an out of date ticket I had no options when I boarded the train. IF I had been refused the ticket on the station I could have either paid £30 for a new one or asked my son to drive me and the little one to York and got my husband or my brother for that matter to come to York and drive me to Scarborough.

Anyway he took my name and address and said I would be hearing from them. He kept my ticket for evidence but on the counter ticket it clearly says I got the ticket from the machine today. I wish the man had used common sense and said he could clearly see I had just got the ticket rather than accuse me of possible multi use and said ok I see the error and this time will let it go or say this ticket was £11 so look I will let you travel if you give me the value of the purchase again. I would have paid £11 just to get my grandson home.

Gosh this is all stressful but hoping that someone else has had a similar experience. I'm quite surprised that a machine would print out a ticket 2 days out of that. Thats my downfall if it had refused I would have had alternative options to make.

Thanks for listening.

Dizzygran.

agrinnall

Well, to start with I can tell you that there is zero chance of Martin Lewis ever responding to any thread on here.

Other people know far more about the rules of rail travel than I do, but it's clear that you are at fault - the issuing of tickets that are past the travel date might seem a bit odd but there are probably good reasons for allowing it. I imagine the guard was asking you to pay for a ticket plus the penalty fare for travelling without a valid ticket. I'd be surprised if the TOC will let you off but you never know; the downside may be that the charge could be higher than if you'd paid on the train (this is surmise on my part, I don't know whether it is or not).

geoffken

how would the guard know if you had used the ticket 2 days ago and then kept it for a freebie?

p00hsticks

geoffken wrote: »

how would the guard know if you had used the ticket 2 days ago and then kept it for a freebie?

In my experience the guards tend to draw a ring round the date on the ticket, write on it or stamp it when checking them to indicate that the journey has started.

Op - What sort of ticket was it (advance, off-peak, anytime etc ) ?

The outbound part of anytime tickets are, I believe, valid for five days after the start date (the return portion can be used within a calendar month)

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, you appear to have been travelling without a valid ticket and I suspect you'll find that the cheapest and least stressful option would have been to purchase another ticket at the time and try to get a refund afterwards.

glider3560

£28.90 is what the guard should have charged you (the Anytime Single from Leeds to Scarborough).

The ticket has the time it was printed actually on the ticket itself. Therefore there is a very easy defence is they attempt to claim you used the ticket on multiple days. However you still failed to present a valid ticket.

£11 (I assume you mean £11.30?) is an advance fare which is available only be booking in advance and travelling on a specific booked train. The guard *cannot* sell you a ticket for £11 on this route. £28.90 or £27.10 is all they could sell (and only £28.90 would be the right thing to charge).

dizzygran

To the above reply. You are correct with the costings. I bought the ticket online, trainline. I went to the ticket machine and put in my ref numbet 15 minutes before the train was departing. Yes the print date was clearly shown when i was made aware of the date by the guard. I collected my ticket and scanned it through the security barrier at the station. I sat in the seat that was on the ticket. No one came to the seat and said it was theirs again if they did i could have noticed the error and been made aware of my ticket date. Its all purely human error on my part by not putting in the correct date. I just over looked that for some reason. I accept i had a wrong ticket but im thinking that as a error was made why hit me with a bigger charge. Surely we all make errors from time to time but are all errors rightly be given huge penalties? Maybe im wrong but i see it that way.

agrinnall

As glider says, the charge was for the standard ticket for that route so there's no penalty at all. I'm actually quite surprised that there wasn't a penalty fare applied, whether one will now be added by the TOC I don't know but I can't see you getting charged less than the £28.90.

glider3560

dizzygran wrote: »

Surely we all make errors from time to time but are all errors rightly be given huge penalties? Maybe im wrong but i see it that way.

The penalty offered by the guard was just a full priced ticket, i.e. what you'd pay if you bought a ticket at the station before travelling, albeit without any off-peak or other discounts.

Other train companies operate penalty fare schemes, where you would have been charged twice the fare, i.e. £57.80.

Alternatively, some train companies choose to prosecute those without a valid ticket. Magistrates courts appear to be fining people around one weeks wages plus costs, the ticket cost and a victim surcharge.

£28.90 is low compared to the other options. If I were the OP, I'd write it off as an expensive mistake and just double then triple check the dates in the future.

dizzygran

I understand what you are saying. Im just a little miffed that a machine gives out expired tickets. If the machine told me that my ticket had expired i could have had options to choose from. Also getting tbrough a security barrier with an out of date ticket. There was 2 machines that could have stopped me getting on that train. Im sure this will turn out to be costly for me.

Poppy9

Don't panic and wait to see what action they propose. My experience of FGW is that staff in the station are rude and unhelpful whereas via Customer Services email or phone they are much more helpful.


I bought a ticket on line that could be amended and I went to ticket office to change it. They refused saying as I had bought on line I had to deal with the online people only - the fact I had an email saying I could change tickets at my local ticket office was ignored. They just shrugged their shoulders!


I contacted CS again explaining the ticket office had refused to deal with an online purchase and they apologised and restated they should have amended and they would contact them to remind them of their duties. CS sent me new tickets in the mail.

dzug1

No machine can stop you getting on the wrong train - they are not that sophisticated