1st Diesel car - avoid supermarket fuel?

jase1

Shrimply wrote: »

Seems very backward. Surely appropriate standards should be updated to suit the current market. You would like to stop development of new, more efficient engines for a worldwide market because of the standards set in the UK for fuel.

If the engine needs fuel that exceeds the UK standards, then it should be kept off sale in the UK until those standards are updated.

Yes, the standards should be updated, but this does not alter the fact that the manufacturer/supplier of the engine is the party at fault, and not the supplier of the fuel, if the fuel is in-spec.

Blaming the fuel supplier is rather like blaming the national grid for blowing up your microwave because Morphy Richards supplied one that would only work on 120V.

Iceweasel

ariba10 wrote: »

We had a refinery cose to where we live (Closed now) and all different Road Tankers would come in to be filled --- All from the same tank!

That's absolutely correct - but the additives package - added to the tanker at the same time would been different dependant on the destination filling station.

You are not really suggesting that all fuel suppliers - BP Shell Esso Tesco Morrisons Asda et al - are selling an identical fuel - so it makes no matter which station you buy it from - or are you?

Iceweasel

Retrogamer wrote: »

"Premium" diesel you get at some forecourts usually has an additive in it similar to Redex. It helps it burn a little better and helps with keeping the injectors clean. The difference is possibly negligible but i've noticed less smoke and slightly better MPG with the Premium stuff from Esso or the likes vs Morrisons regular.

I'm convinced that Redex, which back in the day was advertised as 'Upper Cylinder Lubricant' is nothing more than ATF - Automatic Transmission Fluid.

It was an old truckers' trick to pour half a litre of ATF into a 500litre fuel tank - some still do.

Others add 2-stroke oil to the diesel in the ratio of 200:1 - so a 250ml per 50 litres of diesel.

Low-ash mineral-based 2-stroke oil - as used in petrol chainsaws and lawn-mowers - not the fancy synthetic expensive stuff.

Logic says that it will result in more smoke - but everyone who does it says the opposite - and it lubricates the fuel pumps - working as a replacement for the sulphur which has been taken out of modern diesel.

Just google 2-stroke in diesel to find out about the Mercedes-Benz round the world truck trip which used 2-stroke the whole way.

Also this taken from an Alfa forum, posted by one JON156VELOCE

You may all know that Mercedes Benz have conducted in 2007 a long distance reliability test with a number of Mercedes E-Class 320 cdi from Paris to Beijing. Due to the fact that the diesel quality in East European Countries, Russia and China does not meet the DIN requirements, and Mercedes did not want to take the risk of their engines to flopp due to lousy fuel, the total tour has been accompanied by diesel tanks to re-fuel the E-Class cdi's. Selected members of the Mercedes clientele could apply to participate in selected parts of this test-tour, and advocats and notaries had to certify the correctness of this long term reliability test.
Although Mercedes does not like it published or made public, it is a fact that the diesel-fuel used for this test did contain 2-stroke oil to grease the high pressure pump components and to keep the engines clean during this marathon.
Why our car manufacturers do not officially allow the homoeophatic addition of 2-stroke oil to the diesel fuel has many reasons, mostly of legal nature. Besides this, which car manufacturer has any interest in excessive reliability of their engines? Their repair shops will have great problems.
Meanwhile the "2-stroke-oil to diesel" issue has attracted the interest of a number of Universities in Germany, as this 2-stroke oil has shown to have amazing poperties if added in a small dosis to diesel fuel (1:200), especially the positive impact on air pollution, reduced fuel consumption and improved long term reliability of the diesel engine. The pro and con discussions will go on for a while. But as soon as an accademic report has been published by one of our Universities, this will change very fast.
By the way: all car manufacturers reject the addition of any fuel "additive" in their cars, and warn that guarantee MAY be affected. Nobody says, that guarantee WILL be rejected. 2-stroke oil in its properties is not an additive, as you add oil to oil if you "dope" you fuel with a dosis of 2-stroke oil. The dosis of 2-stroke oil in your diesel-fuel is very difficult to analyse, as every (chemical) analysis has the main function to identify substances which are harmful. But 2-stroke oil has proven not to be harmful at all, on the contrary!

Admittedly the M-Benz of 2007 would not have had a DPF.

Richard53

Iceweasel wrote: »

That's absolutely correct - but the additives package - added to the tanker at the same time would been different dependant on the destination filling station.

There's also the issue of storage, which is another factor not related to the 'all from the same pot' argument. I suspect Tesco fuel (for example) is fine, but that careless storage is causing contamination in a small number of cases and this is where the problems come from.

anotherbaldrick

All i know is that my VW TDI runs fine on shell or BP but lumpy on other outlets including supermarket. Why I have no idea.

chaucer

Having read this entire thread several times I'm starting to get more confused!! lol
I wonder if mileage and type of driving has any impact?
I wasn't really thinking of getting a diesel when changing car.
I didn't think my milaege justified it - even on a used vehicle.
My miles are usually about or under 10K / annum.
My usual commute is just over 12 miles x2 on 50mph dual carriageway and some urban 30mph roads.
But I did get a good deal. Tax, mpg, insurance make for lower running costs (although service costs may be up - I will have to see on that front).

I'm wondering whether to mix it up as previously suggested.
A couple of fill-ups from wherever then a fillu-p with premium grade fuel.

worried_jim

chaucer wrote: »

Having read this entire thread several times I'm starting to get more confused!! lol
I wonder if mileage and type of driving has any impact?
I wasn't really thinking of getting a diesel when changing car.
I didn't think my milaege justified it - even on a used vehicle.
My miles are usually about or under 10K / annum.
My usual commute is just over 12 miles x2 on 50mph dual carriageway and some urban 30mph roads.
But I did get a good deal. Tax, mpg, insurance make for lower running costs (although service costs may be up - I will have to see on that front).

I'm wondering whether to mix it up as previously suggested.
A couple of fill-ups from wherever then a fillu-p with premium grade fuel.

It sounds like the best thing to do is to adopt a 1-3 ratio and use supermarket fuel and every third fill go for the Shell or BP all singing all dancing. Very interesting thread, especially about the two stroke oil being added in the MB test to China.

motorguy

anotherbaldrick wrote: »

All i know is that my VW TDI runs fine on shell or BP but lumpy on other outlets including supermarket. Why I have no idea.

Because your engine has a problem?

Iceweasel

Then of course we have the 'Official' fuel additives such as the stuff from BMW:

Posted 13 March 2015 - 08:25 AM
We're pleased to announce the availability of BMW Petrol Additive and BMW Diesel Additive products. Inserted into the fuel tank, these additives work to clean away deposits which build up on various vehicle parts including fuel injectors, intake valves and within combustion chambers.

Especially developed for BMW in cooperation with leading manufacturers
The only fuel additive technology approved by BMW headquarters Intensively tested for no harm and material compatibility issues Performance proven on all available engine technologies. From carburetor to fuel injection, from port fuel injection to direct injection and even formula 1 engines.
Maintains the new condition of the engine over a long time
Contains the most effective detergent technology worldwide (Kerocom PIBA 03)
Lowest possible fuel consumption and emissions.

At £12.95 for 100ml which treats only one tankful it must be wonderful, powerful stuff.

I don't think it has caught on somehow as several dealers are now discounting it by 50% - even giving free p&p too.

Marktheshark

How does the additives added to the tanker thing work ?
Do they give the tanker driver his own bottle and giant mixing paddle ?
Have you ever tried to mix two oils ?

Is there any definitive scientific test of fuel brands and chemical analysis of different additives.
Or is there just one huge religion like bull of the descriptions and marketing shine and spin about whats added to all Diesel as an anti caking agent and lubricant.
If there really is a magic juice added to brand name, where is it, what is it and what real proof it exists and makes your engine "live longer" is there.