Forgiveness?

Vikipollard

I would need them to acknowledge what they had done - but equally importantly explain WHY they had done it.


Depending on what was said, I might be prepared to put it aside (and not mention it again), but from the context of your original post, they think a single, unexplained apology should be enough to make it go away. Nothing will change if they (and you) don't understand why it happened.


This would be an absolute showstopper for me.

meritaten

AnnieO1234 wrote: »

They're a family member, so there's a whole awkwardness around that as it's basically a fracture through the middle of the family. So in some ways trying to work things out is a way forward rather than simply cutting them out of our lives (or indeed they cut themselves out of our lives first if I'm being accurate.)

For me, forgiveness is something that can be complete if there has been a genuine sorrow, a genuine turn around from whatever it was that someone has done to wrong me. That hasn't happened with this person. Whilst I agree that true forgiveness does require people to move on from the original offence(s) at the same time I don't believe that it's possible to simply say "I'm sorry" and then ignore everything without going through it.

Basically, and I'm sorry for the thought stream - I guess I'm asking whether people think it's appropriate that I continue to hold someone to account for their actions when they obviously don't want to be held accountable by their position of "I don't want to talk about any of it".

=(

It sounds to me as if they aren't really asking for forgiveness - they just want to not be held accountable.
if you can really forgive and be content with that, then go ahead - if not - then don't.

Torry_Quine

Forgiveness is a choice that only you can make and does't have to be dependent on the other person being sorry. It's not about but about not holding on to any resentment you feel towards them. However it soesn't meant there aren't consequences to the action.

easilydistracted

I have a father who people external from the family seem to be obsessed about whether or not I have a concept of forgiveness towards in relation to his behaviour in my childhood. Perhaps these discussion come up more often than for some others because I work in the social care field.

To be honest I don't really see the concept or question as that significant. I'm not religious and I have a distant relationship with him in adulthood. My response is I don't particularly not forgive him I just have never particularly thought about it or have a great interest in doing so.

He has made one rubbish attempt at apology a few years which I stopped dead in it's tracks as being at least 15 years too late and frankly ridiculous and awkward. Childhood rather religious me would have loved a proper apology and wanted to forgive. Adult me sees this as irrelevant ancient history from someone who feels more like a distant relative than anything else.

Bottom line is his behaviour was not ok and that's that. Depending on the issues involved you can have a survivable yet distant relationship with someone without your whole family needing to involve themselves. If forgiveness is an important concept to you than I can't see how you can offer this with a limited and conditional apology but ultimately it is your choice about what is important to you and not a choice anyone else can make for you.

Reading between the lines it sounds like you're talking about some quite major issues, perhaps counselling might be the way forward if you are wrestling with this? Ultimately the family does not have to be split in two, different adults can have different relationships with family members on their own terms. If you're family system doesn't allow this then maybe that's the real issue you need to look at. My distance and settled stance is based on once a year visits at non emotive and not on special occasions.

bouicca21

Whether or not you can even contemplate forgiveness comes down to the sincerity of the repentance. Understanding why someone did whatever it was is something you do, what does the other person do to demonstrate that he/she has understood their own actions and is truly sorry - and I don't mean just sorry they got found out or sorry about the consequences. Words are easy; what actions back them up?

In the catholic church the sinner has to do a penance in order to complete the act of forgiveness. I think that is rather fitting.

Torry_Quine

bouicca21 wrote: »

Whether or not you can even contemplate forgiveness comes down to the sincerity of the repentance. Understanding why someone did whatever it was is something you do, what does the other person do to demonstrate that he/she has understood their own actions and is truly sorry - and I don't mean just sorry they got found out or sorry about the consequences. Words are easy; what actions back them up?

In the catholic church the sinner has to do a penance in order to complete the act of forgiveness. I think that is rather fitting.

From my understanding forgiveness needs nothing from the other person and it may be impossible. The problem is what happens if the person isn't in your life for whatever reason and you need them to do something first in order to forgive?

Forgiveness is about not letting them have any power over you and moving on.

Spendless

Forgiveness is a subject that came up on a self-development course I once did.

The tutor who had forgiven a family member for something that had happened defined it as 'No longer having anger about...'

This was a concept I struggled with as to me forgiveness meant 'no longer minding'

I don't know how helpful or not that is, but if you define what you personally mean by forgiveness then you might know if you are able to forgive or not.

splishsplash

It sounds like the person doesn't really care about forgiveness, OP, they just want you to stop being a thorn in their side.

I think I am quite philosophical usually, but if someone actively sets out to harm me or mine, then they're dead to me.
It's not that I resent them or feel angry, but I think it's ridiculous to let someone like that have any part of my life when there are 7+ billion other people in the world who haven't made it their business to hurt me.
What they do now and how they feel would be of no importance to me - it was their own actions that caused the problem in the first place. Frankly if they tried to set the terms of forgiveness - agreeing not to speak of 'it' again - I would have trouble keeping a straight face.

I guess you need to question how you're dealing with things, OP. Have you been able to process whatever happened, assimilate it and put it behind you?
It is not healthy to try to make someone accountable for their actions. You can recognize the wrong they did and choose how you want to deal with the person accordingly, but you cannot make them feel sorry, make it right, be a better person.
Could it be that you are still tied to that place in time where the wrongs happened - ie you haven't moved on? If you feel you still haven't drawn a line under what happened, then you need to be talking to someone or figuring out how to do it yourself, for your own sake.

Laurensalive

For myself it would depend on what the person had done. I personally would put my foot down and tell this person for a while they are not welcome in my home. I would tell them to use the time to get themselves and the situation sorted out so this never happens again. I personally would not want to be pig in the middle. If the crime was something so terrible I would not even be in the same room as this person.

Counting_Pennies_2

They might not have the capability of understanding the hurt caused. Some people can understand the enormity of a deed, others can't.


I would say if no further understanding or apology is forthcoming or possible, you need to find a way to move on. Either through no longer having anything to do with this person, or finding a way to deal with what has happened and move on.


To keep the issue in the here and now will end up making you as bad as the person who has committed the original deed.


So I think the question is can you cope with this person day to day in your life, are they likely to commit the same offence again.


If you can cope with them, then I would say that you don't say the words you forgive them, more you will put it behind you. Continuing to remain wary of what this person is capable of in order to provide yourself with a form of protection, however not bringing it up again in the future if nothing further occurs.


hth