North West Parking Enforcement Ltd - Carlisle - PCN

GreenFields

I wondered if anyone could help me please. My sister-in-law has received a PCN from this firm due to not parking correctly within the lines of the parking bay - she was not far out. The bay lines are confusing as there are some on the wall in front of the spaces that are out of sync with the ones on the ground and she was well within the two on the wall. The car park was virtually empty and there were no cars in the spaces either side of her.

She noticed one of the car park attendants watching her when she got out of the car and wondered about it at the time but as she had bought a ticket she didn't think too much about it. The PCN was issued 6 minutes after she had bought her ticket so the attendant must have watched her leave the car park and then immediately issued the PCN.

I have read some of the literature in the sticky threads but am a little confused about whether to appeal or not to appeal. We did send a letter - before we read some online advice - requesting photographic evidence of the reason for the PCN and implying she would appeal but she never admitted to driving the car. What does she need to do now, does she need to appeal to the company or not please? Any help gratefully received as I'm a little overwhelmed by all the information.

Northlakes

Read and digest the NEWBIES thread.
This crowd are IPC members and I understand former clampers. They work on a contractual model. Have pictures of the signs in the Carlisle city centre. Any attendant viewing should have pointed out any parking concern and therefore mitigate any loss to the company.

You should have been issued a PCN which includes VAT in the calculation. You will find other threads relating to this.

The company behind the IPC is a firm of 'solicitors' who seem to be encouraging their members down a more legalistic route in order to 'feather their own nest' so care is needed, so appeal but never IGNORE.

Looking at the library pictures of the signs. The writing is so small on the T&C's that none can be read by the average person without close inspection. I would go down the route of unclear signage and appeal. On my photos no IPC membership is shown so I think on this rare occasion you might have some good appeal points to the IPC.

The_Slithy_Tove

Northlakes wrote: »

This crowd are IPC members and I understand former clampers. They work on a contractual model. Have pictures of the signs in the Carlisle city centre. Any attendant viewing should have pointed out any parking concern and therefore mitigate any loss to the company.

If they are using a contractural model, then there is no loss for them to attempt to mitigate, so that one won't fly.

The_Deep

Did any of their paper work mention v.a.t.? If not, they may be fiddling their tax, (being ex clampers), and it will be damages for breach, (no vat). If the latter you can nail them on not a GPEOL.

If you want to make life difficult for them ask for a tax compliant invoice "in order that you can consider paying". Some reading

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5087925=

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5033796=

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5195437

If you suspect tax evasion go here

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/reporting-tax-evasion

GreenFields

Thank you for your replies, I really appreciate it. I have read the newbies thread already but just needed someone to confirm something for me as I found it slightly confusing. This company is an IPC company so the advice seems to be that we appeal but not about the things that we thought were important (mitigating circumstances such as the confusing lines, parking attendant watching, empty car park, confusing signage). We just use the template letter about contractual terms etc. When that is refused, as we will not be referred to POPLA, we just ignore anything else unless/until we get a letter before claim.

In all correspondence we never mention who was driving. We appeal as the keeper of the car.

Have I got this right please? Thank you.

The_Deep

When you appeal throw in the fact that, as their paperwork has not mentioned v.a.t., this must be a claim for liquidated damages for BOC and they must give a PEOL.

Northlakes

This is an IPC member and don't offer POPLA. They have instead a 'kangaroo court' which guarantees members that 80% of the appeals fail.

In this case check the signage, my photos are 12 months old now. Check if they show in the signage that they are IPC members I have seen appeals won on the basis of this being omitted. You need a magnifying glass to see the T&C's small print on the old signs.

GreenFields

Northlakes wrote: »

This is an IPC member and don't offer POPLA. They have instead a 'kangaroo court' which guarantees members that 80% of the appeals fail.

In this case check the signage, my photos are 12 months old now. Check if they show in the signage that they are IPC members I have seen appeals won on the basis of this being omitted. You need a magnifying glass to see the T&C's small print on the old signs.

The have sent a photograph of their signage, there is no mention of the IPC. When you say that you have seen appeals thrown out do you mean thrown out by the IPC themselves?

GreenFields

The_Deep wrote: »

When you appeal throw in the fact that, as their paperwork has not mentioned v.a.t., this must be a claim for liquidated damages for BOC and they must give a PEOL.

I will do that, thanks. What is a PEOL please?

Northlakes

The IPC appeals is strictly speaking the IAS Independent Appeals Service. This is the 'kangaroo court' organised by firm of 'solicitors' who make a nice living convincing PPC's they have a case and leading the PPC down an expensive 'garden path' with a resultant increased income to themselves.

Your appeal is now to the IAS (IPC)

However a certain number of appeals do win and in your case the signage is the win factor for you.

Look at the IPC code of practice and I'm sure it mentions signage and the need to show IPC membership on any signage and the fact that the T&C's are unreadable including the entrance signage.
Take some photos and come back.
An expert on signage will pop-up and give advice.

GreenFields

Northlakes wrote: »

The IPC appeals is strictly speaking the IAS Independent Appeals Service. This is the 'kangaroo court' organised by firm of 'solicitors' who make a nice living convincing PPC's they have a case and leading the PPC down an expensive 'garden path' with a resultant increased income to themselves.

Your appeal is now to the IAS (IPC)

However a certain number of appeals do win and in your case the signage is the win factor for you.

Look at the IPC code of practice and I'm sure it mentions signage and the need to show IPC membership on any signage and the fact that the T&C's are unreadable including the entrance signage.
Take some photos and come back.
An expert on signage will pop-up and give advice.

That's really helpful, thank you.