Buying a property with structural problems? (trees/water leaks)

chaotic_j

Hi all,

We have been looking at properties for some time, however those that meet our requirements and are affordable tend to have issues most people wouldn't touch with a bargepole!

This grand semi-detached 1880s victorian house is a former dental practice, now vacant and with many original features but in unliveable condition.
I have researched quite extensively online and through my collection of period property books and viewed a couple of times to try and see what needs doing to it.

The property has brick inner walls with sandstone brick outer. Most serious problem is the front of the property, from the first storey upwards is leaning forwards, there are large vertical cracks inside where you can see the internal wall that runs perpendicular to the outer wall has the brick cracked through.

Outside there is gap because of this which has been filled with mortar and the stone parapet gutter has a gap and is leaking. The roof has also been leaking in a few places but think it may have been patched up?

At the back the gutters are hanging off and have been pouring water into the fabric of the walls/ceilings etc.

I've found out that the water supply to the house(s)? was leaking or may still be leaking and has been for some time? where it enters into the cellar.

Also just to add another issue at the front of each house at either side was a tree close by, these have been cut down, there are further trees in the back garden which are very large but some distance away.

The drain appeared to be clogged as well runs, it from the back of the property to the back street.. not sure if it is shared with the neighbouring property so may fall partly under the utility companies remit.

It was bought in Feb of this year for 20K and the dental practice vacated it in March.. price was offers over 100K however it may now be possible to purchase for between 62-80K?

Issues I read about online included subsidence from trees, heave from removing said trees, 'roof spread' due to weak roof, corroded iron wall ties between the brick inner and stone outer and obviously all of the issues the water from the gutters will have caused regards structural timbers, plaster etc.

Apparently nobody has had a survey.. have I been watching too many episodes of 'Restoration Man' and 'Grand Designs'? :cool2: Worst case scenario what does it cost to rebuild all or part of a front elevation such as this?

Has anyone bought a property like this or with even more serious problems?

Thanks in advance
chaotic_j

Hoploz

Would you be buying with a mortgage? If so that could be a stumbling block.

[Deleted User]

I would also suggest that if it was purchased for £20K in February and is now up for £60-£80k.., its priced way too high given the extent of the problems you have already seen. I suspect this buyer thought they could refurb, and discovered what a money pit it was, then thought 'I'll still be able to make 3x what I put in.

Depends on what they've done of course.

Be sceptical. Why is it being sold so quickly?

chaotic_j

@Hoploz I neglected to mention, I wouldn't be buying with a mortgage, It'd be cash (it is probably unmortgageable due to the structural issues and also lack of proper kitchen) etc.

I could afford to buy outright but I'd have to bide my time a bit to gather funds for essential repairs or borrow from family.

@deannatrois In the long run I'd sell my current property to fund the renovation. I would imagine the size of house, amenities, area etc. after renovations it would probably end up being worth 200K.

Yes I am curious too as to why it was bought for 20K and then is being sold.. the seller is shown on the title register as living at the property (they don't)?

As far as I'm aware it may have been up for sale for quite some time.. maybe even since they bought it? it is now going to a "modern method of auction".

It isn't really possible to tell the circumstances in which they bought it is it? You do have some good points though, their name sounds 'builderish' or maybe I'm making a massive sweeping generalisation.

The difference between me and them is I'd be buying as a mid to long term family home

The house next to me has been vacant for 5 years, it was bought for 80K before we moved here, the old chap had died and I wonder if the son who now owns it bought out siblings? It isn't worth 80K..

Hoploz

I suppose you could find a builder to go and view it with you and give an estimate.

You could offer 20k?

If you remortgaged your current home to finance it you could still live there while the worst of the work is done. Then sell when you can live in it.

Likewise I hate to see buildings neglected and think its criminal when people demolish perfectly adequate houses to shoehorn in horrid modern footballers wives houses. I'm all for renovating.

Trouble is, you really need to have a good idea of the Trade I think. Ideally do lots yourself. Otherwise if you have to pay other people to do the work you can easily send more than it ends up being worth. Which is ok if it's your dream home and you're staying for 20 years but not if you intend to sell.

Davesnave

This sounds like a very large property and you sound like a novice!

I realise that people may fall in love with old properties, but it's more usual for those who take on 'projects' to start with something relatively small, both in order to gain experience and also make contact with good trades people.

The latter are particularly important with a property like this, as the difference between a real money pit and something rough, but manageable, is often hard for the untrained eye to see. At the very least you need a trustworthy, experienced builder's advice here, not ours.

chaotic_j

It is going for auction shortly, maybe I should refrain from bidding and see if it's still available at a later date.. it is true I'm a novice and a bit of a ditherer..

I'm a dreamer and an idealist.. the original features whilst damaged in various places are wonderful and remarkably complete.. it is sad to think it may be bought and it all ripped out and replaced with soulless polystyrene coving and ultra smooth lifeless walls..

I'd love to be one of those ultra practical people that can do a lot of it themselves but it isn't really possible I suppose. I have a pretty stressful and demanding job.. sometimes you just want to say 'sod it, I'll say yes!' though!

Doesn't help being unhappy where we currently are.. we want out! See one of my older posts for the last dream house which featured a large hillside of Japanese Knotweed next to it.. Himalayan Balsam in the back yard and 'the hills have eyes-esque' neighbours :rotfl:

Owain_Moneysaver

Sounds lovely.

My concern would be whether the other half of the semi is also affected, and what your liability might be under Party Wall Act etc for any work involving the party wall or the other half in general.

Also if it's really bad then the council might not wait for you to do repairs in your own time but might slap an dangerous structure order on it for immediate repair, and if you don't comply they could do the work, and then charge you for it.

I think you need to have a structural survey done by a structural engineer (MIstructE, not a surveyor)with experience of domestic property restoration and ground movement. The front wall might not need to be rebuilt but might be able to be pushed back into position and stabilised; there are ways of propping up buildings that are a lot less disruptive and expensive than traditional underpinning.

chaotic_j

@Owain Moneysaver Yes I think the other half of the semi could be affected then of course there is the possibility that they couldn't/wouldn't have any defect rectified.. there was some cracking on the party wall at the top of the stairs on the first floor if I remember correctly..

The property was in use as a dentists until March this year.. so surely it can't be that imminently dangerous? I did consider getting a structural surveyor and found one that would take a look at a not too outrageous price.. however I didn't in the end and now the property is at the forefront of my mind once more!

Davesnave

chaotic_j wrote: »

Doesn't help being unhappy where we currently are.. we want out! See one of my older posts for the last dream house which featured a large hillside of Japanese Knotweed next to it.. Himalayan Balsam in the back yard and 'the hills have eyes-esque' neighbours :rotfl:

I understand all about being unhappy in a house because of opportunties elsewhere passing one by, but my subsequent search for a 'doer-upper' soon taught me to view with my sensible hat on.

Properties that are cheap, bargain material, are always that way for good reasons. I did see some genuinely exciting opportunities, but I learned to recognise the ones that were not for me, either because the scope of work was too great, or the surroundings impossible to change. Weird neighbours with Japanese knotweed would fall into the latter category.

Eventually, I plumped for something 'easy' that has still needed most of my savings and several years of my life to fix. Being a pensioner, I don't have unlimited time or resources. If you are working in a stressful job, neither do you.

Despite being in a hurry, it took years, not only to sort out the early most pressing problems with this property, but also to draw up a truly workable plan and assemble the right people to tackle the jobs I couldn't do. When moving to a new area, it's hard to find the right tradespersons, at the right price.

For example, the person first recommended to me for one of the most pressing jobs here, charged exactly double the rate of the one whom I employed.

Another scenario where work was quoted for, produced costs ranging from £8k to £24k. I'm sure the expensive quote would have resulted in a first class job, but as I have been unable to provide continuous working in that area, it would have gone even higher.

These are budget-busting decisions, make no mistake. When you add in badly performing professionals, like architects and engineers, even ones recommended by friends, then having the right trades at the work face becomes crucial to overcome problems.

And my property was relatively modern, standard construction, just uncared-for and weird!

moneyistooshorttomention

Taking into account both the defects with this house - and the ones with the last one you looked at - you must be one heck of a desperate to move and a bit of a Romantic as well:rotfl::eek:

Errrm....are you sure you wouldn't actually have a serious re-think about whether buying a boring/bog-standard "box" of a house might be a better idea. Much less of a challenge - but errrrm....I'm not convinced being after that much of a challenge on top of a full-time job is the world's best idea:cool:

It is very true that, whatever house you buy, there is a very good chance that it will need a lot more time and money spent on it than you thought originally anyway - even if isn't an obvious Moneypit House:(. Even on the "boring bog-standard box" house I recently bought I've been sitting there over last couple of days totalling up what its cost me and thinking "HOW much has that boring little box taken of my money? Yikes....". So I can only wince at the thought of what a more "Romantic" House might take.

I can think of a "Romantic" House near mine - and, at a very very quick guesstimate I'd instantly reckon it would cost £100,000 just to make it habitable (yep....it is lived in already - though I would even put it as "risk to life and limb" state) and I'd only buy it at a knockdown price to knock it down - and sell the site.

One of the main things striking me = where would you live whilst a Moneypit House took every last penny you had and then some more? Would you be planning on a mobile home in the grounds?

Also - you don't say what your marital status is? If you're single it will "get old" very soon having to deal with everything on your own and no-one who will quite understand/be as committed to it as you are. If you're married = then I hope its a good strong marriage with a like-minded partner (ie who is also willing to take on One Huge Project of a House).