Structural Survey Complete - Issues

joeyp101

Hi All,

FTB, just had the survey complete on a property (listed for 250k), agred price 247,500.

House is a 2 bed with converted attic space, built in 1783.

Issues:
Attic converted in 2003, goes against building regs - floor not reinforced, no fire door, windows not big enough. (prior to current owners)

High moisture readings in most of the walls

Some bowed floor beams 1st and 2nd floor (probably caused by the moisture levels, need further investigation)

And a few other non-structural issues

Without going into any details, the surveyors informal opinion was that it would cost around 15-20k to remedy the problems.

Now he's recommended I get some quotes on fixing the problems, how would I actually go about doing that? Can I ask for a builder just to pop round and get a quote?

And renegotiating, its an old house, so obviously its not going to be perfect. But should I be asking for a lower price to sort these problems?

Many thanks for any help

Hoploz

I've no experience with this type of house but I'd say some moisture and some unevenness in the floors would be normal for a house over 200 years old.

Re the attic, you only need building regs if it's going to be a habitable room. The original people who 'converted' it may have just boarded it for storage which would not need to meet any particular requirements. If you intend to use it as a bedroom or something then you'd need to convert it properly, with building regs, to conform to the appropriate safety standards.

joeyp101

Hoploz wrote: »

I've no experience with this type of house but I'd say some moisture and some unevenness in the floors would be normal for a house over 200 years old.

Re the attic, you only need building regs if it's going to be a habitable room. The original people who 'converted' it may have just boarded it for storage which would not need to meet any particular requirements. If you intend to use it as a bedroom or something then you'd need to convert it properly, with building regs, to conform to the appropriate safety standards.

Thanks,

So do you think I can send a builder round to have a look? And should I negotiate on price?

dragonsoup

Living in a 200 year old house myself ( and having just bought a 160 year old one) high moisture readings in the walls are pretty much what you get with a house of this age. There are no physical damp proof course and not usually much in the way of foundations either. Add floor surfaces laid directly on the ground and high moisture readings are pretty much a given.

If it's causing a problem then you can have a chemical damp course injected which we did in one room which had unexpected side effects. We've left the rest well alone and it isn't an issue at all.

My floors are bowed too - again pretty normal for the age of the properties.

If this is a worry for you than you may be better off with a more modern house. Old houses are always going to have a few quirks. It adds to the charm for me but they are not everyone's cup of tea. I am however confident that both my properties will still be standing long after the 1960s estate nearby has been pulled down!

As for the loft conversion it would only be an issue if you are paying for it to be a bedroom. If just for storage then it really doesn't matter. Part of mine has been converted to a room without buildings regs ( before we bought it). It wasn't even mentioned in the estate agent particulars and we use it as clean accessible storage rather than disturbing 200 years of dust in the rest of the roof space

Hoploz

You can send who you like round, if it were me I'd go with them.

Negotiating on price, well that's not my thing. I believe if you're buying a house of this age then you should expect a few structural things. People call it Old Charm. If it has stood that long it's unlikely to suddenly fall down in the next few years, now is it. I believe a survey is for information, not for using to negotiate. Unless the house is unmortgageable or something.

However, you must decide whether you are concerned about the use restrictions of the attic. Do you want to use it for storage, or are you hoping to put your kids/loved ones to sleep in an unsuitable room? If the latter then you must decide whether you want to spend the extra re-converting the attic space.

AlexMac

dragonsoup wrote: »

... high moisture readings in the walls are pretty much what you get with a house of this age. There are no physical damp proof course and not usually much in the way of foundations either. Add floor surfaces laid directly on the ground and high moisture readings are pretty much a given.

If it's causing a problem then you can have a chemical damp course injected which we did in one room which had unexpected side effects. We've left the rest well alone and it isn't an issue at all...

Good advice from Dragonsoup, but I'd re-iterate that it's probably not worth taking advice from a so-called 'timber and damp' specialist contractor because they will probably advise exactly the same bog-standard salesmens' solution; chemically injected DPC, plus stripping internal walls and re-rendering with waterproofed cement before plastering...

Which doesn't really suit an old house whose 'waterproofing' depends on breathability and lime-mortar, good heating and ventilation. Look at advice such as that at
https://www.spab.org.uk/advice/technical-qas/technical-qa-20-rising-damp/
or
http://lpoc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Guide-to-Owning-a-Listed-Building.pdf
and make sure you get an appropriately skilled technician.

It's entirely reasonable to inspect, get quotes then try to negotiate on price; maybe expecting the seller to knock the full costs of a remedy is probably unreasonable however...

When we sold an older building, we met our buyer somewhere in the middle, and knocked, I think, £7-10k off rather than the £20k or so on their picky list... But negotiate considerately; the seller may get the hump if you're pushy. My wife wanted the buyer to go forth and multiply when (in her view) they got a surveyor mate to diss her family home!

The loft room is more straightforward. If the value reflects the extra bedroom (rather than a boarded loft storage) it's reasonable to talk about retrospective regulation; solicitors and buyers have got more picky about this stuff, so you'll have the same wrangle when you sell

joeyp101

Excellent advice! Thanks for your help.

I've read in several places about chemical damp course injection, only to find out its a nightmare and just creates more problems unless you have really good ventilation.

I think I'll get a few quotes for the loft, and see if there is some wiggle room in the price but as for the moisture problem, as you guys have said, its an old house!!

Thanks again

Mossfarr

Just my (non expert) opinion - if the house was marketed as having a 'loft conversion' which implies that it is a fully useable room then it should comply with building regs. I would challenge the estate agent if this were not the case.
If the marketing simply indicated a 'useable loft space' or 'loft room storage' then it would not need to comply.

mossfarr

joeyp101

Interesting, this is what it said on the listing:

"The whole top floor is occupied by the attic room which has exposed beams, exposed stone chimney and 3 skylights providing lots of light"

Which indicates its room to me rather than just storage!

SG27

joeyp101 wrote: »

Excellent advice! Thanks for your help.

I've read in several places about chemical damp course injection, only to find out its a nightmare and just creates more problems unless you have really good ventilation.

I think I'll get a few quotes for the loft, and see if there is some wiggle room in the price but as for the moisture problem, as you guys have said, its an old house!!

Thanks again

Did the surveyor have a good understanding of old houses? As others have said high damp readings are pretty standard and so are wonky floors walls. A good experienced surveyor will know whether these are a problem or not.

dragonsoup

joeyp101 wrote: »

Interesting, this is what it said on the listing:

"The whole top floor is occupied by the attic room which has exposed beams, exposed stone chimney and 3 skylights providing lots of light"

Which indicates its room to me rather than just storage!

Is it included as one of the 2 bedrooms or is it an extra room ( so could be a third bedroom if properly converted)?

If it is considered one of the bedrooms how does the price compare with other 2 beds in your area?