Ticketed on visitor space in private development

IWonder

Hi all

I received a windscreen ticket from PCM UK Ltd on a private development, (I was a genuine visitor to one of the residents). The developer owns the land (they are still building /expanding).
The completed area is managed by a management company who contract PCM to control the parking etc.

I've read load of threads on the available forums but can find anything similar to my exact situation and am getting completely confused with all the jargon and abbreviations, ie not sure which bits to cherry pick for my action.

My questions are:
1. Having read the NEWBIES - is this still the 'up to date' advise as its dated 2014 and I know a lot can change over time. Many other threads say to ignore until you receive a NtK.

2. PCM are a member of IPC so I assume all associated info to POPLA is irrelevant to me?

3. Should I ignore until I receive a Notice to Keeper or should I send an appeal to PCM via their web site appeal service and what info do I need to include? How much detail?
(I am still within the 28 days).

I couldn't find a way to attach a pic of ticket and one of the signs I photo'd since, from a different part of the development. Is this possible?

Thank you in advance for any simplified reply..........(very confused being).

fisherjim

You don't need a thread with your EXACT situation, the process is basically the same.
The IPC do not use POPLA they have their own useless kangaroo court.
Have you been back to complain to the developers agent on site they can usually sort this out by getting a cancellation?

The_Deep

I've read load of threads on the available forums but can find anything similar to my exact situation and am getting completely confused with all the jargon and abbreviations, ie not sure which bits to cherry pick for my action.

There are loads of similar/identical cases, have another look. acronyms are explained in the stickies.

If you have to appeal to the IAS you are home and dry. They will refuse you. Their refusal will be anonymous and flawed in law. No PPC would risk you showing one to a judge

Just allege poor signage, no contract, no standing, unfair T&C, IAS will insist that you prove them, however that is the job of the PPC.

Redx

IWonder wrote: »

I've read load of threads on the available forums but can find anything similar to my exact situation and am getting completely confused with all the jargon and abbreviations, ie not sure which bits to cherry pick for my action.

post #2 of the newbies sticky thread explains the acronyms

that NEWBIES sticky thread also explains a lot of other stuff too

IWonder wrote: »

My questions are:
1. Having read the NEWBIES - is this still the 'up to date' advise as its dated 2014 and I know a lot can change over time. Many other threads say to ignore until you receive a NtK.

2. PCM are a member of IPC so I assume all associated info to POPLA is irrelevant to me?

3. Should I ignore until I receive a Notice to Keeper or should I send an appeal to PCM via their web site appeal service and what info do I need to include? How much detail?
(I am still within the 28 days).

1) it also says this

Please don't start a new thread asking if this advice is still up to date - yes it is - I will change it if things change!

Please don't start a thread asking if you should appeal to the IAS unless you have very rare circumstances that might make yours worth a try. I say 90% of people should NOT try! Do not hand the operator the 'advantage' of an IAS win.


What will happen if I do not bother with the IAS stage?

and if you look at the bottom of the posts it tells you the date it was last amended too , namely 06 june 2015 and 07 june 2015

2) simple answer - popla is irrelevant in your case - YES
(as its the IAS via the IPC , not popla via the BPA)

3) its 21 days for the IPC members , not 28 days

you should follow the advice given in that NEWBIES sticky thread

IWonder wrote: »

I couldn't find a way to attach a pic of ticket and one of the signs I photo'd since, from a different part of the development. Is this possible?

another simplified reply :-

use the forum search and the search word TINYPIC or PHOTOBUCKET to find out how to link pictures from host sites

IWonder

thank you for all those who answered above.
Please forgive my ignorance in all of this, but with your kind help I think I have a clearer understanding now.
The back of the ticket definitely says I can appeal within 28 days even though the IPC Code says 21 days on their site. So I will go ahead and paste this (from the stickie) into the online appeal.

Can I assume the bit about the POPLA can remain (even though they are IPC members) as they will reject it anyway?

...........................................................................
I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:

a). The sum is disproportionate, does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term.
b) The sum is extravagant and unconscionable and cannot be justified.
c). There is no evidence that you have any interest in the land. I will complain to the landowner about your aggressive ticketing.
d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA so there can be no keeper liability.
e). I believe that the signs were not seen/are ambiguous and the predominant purpose is to deter so there is no contract to pay this charge, which is a penalty.

Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I will only appeal further if you offer POPLA, the only independent ADR with a scrutiny panel and trained Assessors. The 'IAS' offered by IPC firms will not be used, for well-documented reasons.

''Drop hands'' offer
The charge is baseless but I realise that you may have nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs for responding to your junk mail dressed up to mimic a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15 so this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days and I will not pursue you for my costs.

Breach of CCRs
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered nor expressly agreed. This 'contract' is cancelled and any obligations now end.
...........................................................................................

The_Deep

I say 90% of people should NOT try! Do not hand the operator the 'advantage' of an IAS win.

Please ignore this, an IAS win can only benefit you. It will be anonymous, ill considered, and severely flawed in law. No PPC in their right mind would risk you producing such a travesty of accepted adjudication process in front of a judge whom you could ask to dismiss the case as no credible appeal protocol was in place.

Guys_Dad

I am not clear as to what contravention you are supposed to have made. Can you expand?

IWonder

The actual ticket says the Reason for Issue:
Parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd permit (at time of enforcement).

I'll try to upload the pic of the sign too (which is not clearly in view to where the car was parked).

IWonder

hm.. when I try to add a link to the pic in photobucket it says:

The following errors occurred with your submission:
Sorry as a new user you are not allowed to post with links. This is done to stop spammers clogging up the site. Please edit your message below to continue.

Any ideas how I can get the image up? Or is it not necessary for anyone to see it?

IWonder

The_Deep wrote: »

I say 90% of people should NOT try! Do not hand the operator the 'advantage' of an IAS win.

Please ignore this, an IAS win can only benefit you. It will be anonymous, ill considered, and severely flawed in law. No PPC in their right mind would risk you producing such a travesty of accepted adjudication process in front of a judge whom you could ask to dismiss the case as no credible appeal protocol was in place.

Would you suggest I therefore remove the lines below?
'I will only appeal further if you offer POPLA, the only independent ADR with a scrutiny panel and trained Assessors. The 'IAS' offered by IPC firms will not be used, for well-documented reasons.'

Or remove the whole of the 'Formal Challenge' paragraph?

Would you recommend anything else I need to add in its place?

Fruitcake

IWonder wrote: »

hm.. when I try to add a link to the pic in photobucket it says:

The following errors occurred with your submission:
Sorry as a new user you are not allowed to post with links. This is done to stop spammers clogging up the site. Please edit your message below to continue.

Any ideas how I can get the image up? Or is it not necessary for anyone to see it?

Post the URL but change http to hxxp and then someone here will change it back.