Used car is a lemon but will not take back. Help please

Nessun_Dorma

Or, a fourth option could be that the actual data kind of dispels your "theory."

Warranty Direct's reliability index gives a much better insight into a manufacturer's record.

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer

FreddieFrugal

Nessun_Dorma wrote: »

Or, a fourth option could be that the actual data kind of dispels your "theory."

Warranty Direct's reliability index gives a much better insight into a manufacturer's record.

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer

Couple things.

13 manufacturers before you get to Peugeot.

Look at individual cars like 308, 207 and their reliability rating is far lower than their overall, which means they're being pulled up statistically by a couple of good models such as 3008 which are newer (average age included in index is 3.4) which weights it.

Also how many cars are included to get this average? Makes a big difference. I reckon the stats on there will be most broadly influenced by how many cars are covered by their warranties, you may find that there are far fewer peugeots covered than Fords for instance. Which means how representative this is, is questionable

Look at the user ratings and the cars often get lower still.

Consider the Driver Power Survey. French cars don't do well in that. Reliability wise or in anything else. Middling to poor. Why would anyone choose that over better similar priced alternatives? Oh yeh! I remember, people numbered in my previous post, or combination of all 3.

But yes some manufacturer's are worse. Like VW.
Don't get me started on Bentleys, now they are real money pits!

Nessun_Dorma

IanRi wrote: »

Couple things.

13 manufacturers before you get to Peugeot.

Look at individual cars like 308, 207 and their reliability rating is far lower than their overall, which means they're being pulled up statistically by a couple of good models such as 3008 which are newer (average age included in index is 3.4) which weights it.

Also how many cars are included to get this average? Makes a big difference

Look at the user ratings and the cars often get lower still.

Consider the Driver Power Survey.

I am not sure you understand what an "index," is.

The point is, you cannot dismiss French manufacturers, because of your what you might have seen on the side of the road, on one afternoon's driving. I have owned many different cars, built by many different manufacturers and French makes are are no less reliable than average.

colino

Using a third party warranty companies tables to prove the reliability of cars? Google ignoratio elenchi too.
Do you think a buyer of an old, bad-reputation, banger would go to the expense of a warranty, or do you think a buyer of the aforesaid insurance of say, a Bentley, would be in the garage every 5 minutes, pushing up the claims record at the merest squeak from the glovebox?
Much as Skoda built up an undeserved reputation for reliability by entering and winning rally classes that no one else bothered with, ironically before that brief period when they did make masses of tough, reliable, cars; your missing the point that a lot of certain manufacturers products hit the scrap yard long before their structural integrity is compromised.

FreddieFrugal

Nessun_Dorma wrote: »

I am not sure you understand what an "index," is.

Warranty Direct Reliability Index. That's what it's called. So me saying included in the index is correct, thank you.

Thank you Colino! I was trying make that point but you put it much more eloquently.

FreddieFrugal

Nessun_Dorma wrote: »

The point is, you cannot dismiss French manufacturers, because of your what you might have seen on the side of the road, on one afternoon's driving.

I know that! I said that in my post if you'd read it properly.

Now obviously this one experience isn't valid evidence to argue that all French cars are bad,

My views are based on my experience of knowing many people who own French cars, of reading many car reviews online, of seeing post after post on message boards about people with bad experiences of them, on owner satisfaction surveys.

You know not long ago I considered buying a scenic. Decent sounding car based purely on reviews. But when you started reading about reliability that's what changed my mind.

Father in Law has had many French cars. His last renault had so many issues. The lights not working. indicators indicating but not showing on dashboard or 'clicking'. The entire dashboard disappearing.

It's the fact that some French manufacturers can't even be bothered to move the fuse box over when they make the car right hand drive. Tiny gloveboxes. And it's not a mistake, they just couldn't be bothered to build the car properly and give you a full size glovebox.

You remember when C3 Picassos could have their brakes engaged by a passenger putting their foot in the wrong place in the footwell?

Now they're doing stupid things like making it so you have to go through slow unresponsive touchscreen menus to change the aircon settings...relying entirely on electrics in a French car!?

Piles of absolute steaming horse manure.

Nessun_Dorma

colino wrote: »

Using a third party warranty companies tables to prove the reliability of cars? Google ignoratio elenchi too.
Do you think a buyer of an old, bad-reputation, banger would go to the expense of a warranty, or do you think a buyer of the aforesaid insurance of say, a Bentley, would be in the garage every 5 minutes, pushing up the claims record at the merest squeak from the glovebox?
Much as Skoda built up an undeserved reputation for reliability by entering and winning rally classes that no one else bothered with, ironically before that brief period when they did make masses of tough, reliable, cars; your missing the point that a lot of certain manufacturers products hit the scrap yard long before their structural integrity is compromised.

Again, this is an index, it incorporates many different factors, comprising costs, time, effort and events and weights them accordingly. Everything that we all include, when we consider the effects of a breakdown. For example, if a car develops a problem, two or three times a year, but takes very little time, effort and money to put right, doesn't affect the owner as much, as one problem every eighteen months that takes longer to fix, causes greater inconvenience and is expensive to repair.

The Warranty Direct index considers all of those factors and more.

colino

Nope, you have chosen to use a company who deal with the sliver of car buyers who take out insurance with them and take that as a representation of overall car quality. It's entirely biased, misleading and irrelevant. Adding on what you think WD index proves over and above their own claims takes you to an entirely different place.

Nessun_Dorma

colino wrote: »

Nope, you have chosen to use a company who deal with the sliver of car buyers who take out insurance with them and take that as a representation of overall car quality. It's entirely biased, misleading and irrelevant.

Adding on what you think WD index proves over and above their own claims takes you to an entirely different place.

Warranty Direct administer the largest proportion of independent warranty claims in the UK, that is significant number of vehicles per year; hardly a "sliver."

colino

What was that specific number again? "Significant" doesn't appear to be a calculable fraction of the number of cars on the road. Don't worry, BNP Paribas make most of their income from people like you who read the leaflets and haven't the first clue what the message actually means.