Used car is a lemon but will not take back. Help please

larington

Hello,

I will try to give as much information as possible. bit by bit as it has occurred. but it may be a bit long sorry.

Picked up a car on saturday 11/07/15 Renault Espace 2.2, 59K, full service history, MOT, good condition etc. test drove up to 40mph no real problems it appears, engine seemed clean but I'm no mechanic, but when i pull back in to garage for the paperwork to complete, there is a water stain on the ground. I point it out, they take it in, they say nothing from the pipes so it must be from the skid pan from when they washed the car.

Drove it back and halfway into the journey, i lost power and it says 'fuel injector faulty' can't get over 50mph and when i pull into services to take a look, could not really see anything, i then go to pull away and also it says 'automatic handbrake faulty'.

I email the next day (garage closed) and say on monday it will go on diagnostics at my local Renault specialist. Also notice another water stain on ground. Diagnostics brings up a whole list of faults approx 15 ranging from ECU low voltage, multiphlex cable, EGR valve, ABS. He also says there seems to be a problem with the brakes as well. The specialist says he won't even give me a price to repair as he is not interested in it as its major work. I again relay this information same day via email to garage we bought from.

Next day, no contact, i call with the issues listed and say I will be returning the car as its not 'fit for purpose'. They say they know their rights are to repair the car and if we are not happy with that then take them to small claims court. but what are the issues? I list them and they say no problem we can fix and the sensor issues are just old ones but they can replace the sensors anyway. They are just old faults stored on the ECU. I disagreed and said I cannot let my wife, two kids and a third she looks after drive in a car with all these faults. They say bring it back up and we can discuss it further then.

We left it two days to mull on both sides and i called today 16/07/15 to say no, we will still return the car. They say after seeing the copies of the diagnostics machine its just electrical and all cars have them, even their own ones do and even after sorting out, the machine will still say the error codes even after repair/replace. They say i have to return the car for them to repair and they are not going to refund. I phoned 3 garages who all said !!!!!!!!. You plug in the diagnostics, read the fault, fix it, replug and the error code would be gone. All three said this. Also when i spoke to reanult they say the dash has been replaced at 15k which means the car has done 75k not 60k as it says on the new dash. Could this mean sale is void as wrong information when listed. Also looking closer at the stamp book there is literally just stamps and milage. Nothing about whats been done or anything e.g. no new filter, brake pads, plugs etc. Does this constitute full service history?

sorry if this is long but never bought a used car and thought we had a good one but it seems not. Like i said its a car for my wife and 3 (under 2) small children, so safety is paramount.

where do i stand? is there any who has a good idea? with them giving the BS about the electrical and mechanical faults and then on the collection day the leaking, what i now suspect is the rad, I'm just not sure of their competency to repair the vehicle. we also paid the 2k on a credit card but today Abbey basically said we were lying but to fill out a form anyway. i mean !!!!!!?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read and answer.

macman

The time to inspect the paperwork for 'full service history' is before you agree to buy it, not after. But a stamped service book is a service history-you can't necessarily expect to see all the invoices as well. If it says '12,000 mile service,' then the work done will be assumed to be that specified by the manufacturer's service schedule.
I'd forget about the faults and reject it on the grounds alone that the mileage is false.
PS:checking the service book first would probably have shown the mileage discrepancy?

FreddieFrugal

Just don't buy Renault vehicles! That 2.2 engine is particularly bad. Search for it on google and immediately find multiple forum posts about it. Really unreliable.

Did you research this car at all online before you bought it?

Sorry that you've had a bad experience, hope you manage to return it. Never ever buy a renault again and certainly not one of their most unreliable engines.

What reg year is it by the way?

burlington6

'' I phoned 3 garages who all said !!!!!!!!. You plug in the diagnostics, read the fault, fix it, replug and the error code would be gone. All three said this. Also when i spoke to reanult they say the dash has been replaced at 15k which means the car has done 75k not 60k as it says on the new dash. Could this mean sale is void as wrong information when listed. Also looking closer at ''

Can you give me the number for these garages because the ones I've been using recently do just that, and the light stays on lol

IanMSpencer

The main thing is that you need to go through a formal process. Return to the dealer and give them a letter stating in writing that the vehicle is not fit for purpose due to the many faults (detail them) and they have 7 days to repair it to a satisfactory state or you want your money back. You must give them the opportunity to repair (they may decide not to do that).

If they do not repair satisfactorily they must give you your money back but you might need to take legal action. The letter is important as it puts in writing that you have been reasonable.

If they do not play ball, don't mess about but immediately go and issue a small claims against them, there is a web site Money Claim Online which guides you through the process.

You will win if things are as you say, but you must document the problems, provide evidence to allow the judge to understand the problems. These claims are often decided on paper. However, the dealer, when he realises he has an actual legal claim may then decide it is not worth the hassle and give in.

tberry6686

burlington6 wrote: »

'' I phoned 3 garages who all said !!!!!!!!. You plug in the diagnostics, read the fault, fix it, replug and the error code would be gone. All three said this. Also when i spoke to reanult they say the dash has been replaced at 15k which means the car has done 75k not 60k as it says on the new dash. Could this mean sale is void as wrong information when listed. Also looking closer at ''

Can you give me the number for these garages because the ones I've been using recently do just that, and the light stays on lol

Any half decent garage will clear the codes after fixing. If the code comes back then they haven't fixed the problem.

burlington6

tberry6686 wrote: »

Any half decent garage will clear the codes after fixing. If the code comes back then they haven't fixed the problem.

What I'm tring to say is, they read the code, say it a certain part, fit the part, clear the code and the fault is still there.......and then they charge you for the part they fitted.

Garages nowadays basically replace parts until they get the right one.

shaun_from_Africa

IanMSpencer wrote: »

The main thing is that you need to go through a formal process. Return to the dealer and give them a letter stating in writing that the vehicle is not fit for purpose due to the many faults (detail them) and they have 7 days to repair it to a satisfactory state or you want your money back. You must give them the opportunity to repair (they may decide not to do that)

You do not have to allow a repair.
The car was faulty when sold and as such the purchaser has the legal right to reject it and get a full refund.
The repair option only applies once the car has been accepted by the purchaser.

forgotmyname

The problem is that some mechanics will read the code and just replace the part the code points to and not actually have enough brain cells to wonder if there could be another fault that will trigger that code.

terric

Interestingly I'm in (kind of) the same position with a Renault Grand Scenic. While the car is fine mechanically, I keep getting "check anti-pollution filter" and "check injection system" warnings up. Right now it's on its fourth trip to the garage to be fixed - they've admitted the fault to be carbon wear on the Turbo and are pursuing it through RAC warranty (who interestingly explicitly say they don't cover turbos) anway I have a thread up.

Basically, from what I've read so far you're covered under the Sales Of Goods Act for up to 6 months (longer if the fault is deemed pre-existing later) however, there are a few things that are relevant to your situation:

1. You HAVE to give them reasonable attempt to repair it at their expense but at a garage of their choice.
2. You should not suffer any costs associated - so they need to provide alternative transport if you haven't got one already

How was the car advertised? I know Renault errors knock things like cruise control off, and if it was advertised with that feature then it currently doesn't have it i.e. not sold as advertised. Small technicalities but they still stand.

Take it to them, let them repair it and let them provide you with alternative transport in the meantime. Mention that when you receive the car, you'll get it inspected by a third party (at your cost) to show them you're not taking any risks. See how they handle that.

Unfortunately this is a bit of a slog but stick with it, you're well within your rights at this stage.

shaun_from_Africa

terric wrote: »

1. You HAVE to give them reasonable attempt to repair it at their expense but at a garage of their choice.
2. You should not suffer any costs associated - so they need to provide alternative transport if you haven't got one already

Incorrect.
The OP does not have to allow a repair.
If purchased goods are faulty at the time or purchase, they can be rejected provided that this is done within a reasonable time and before acceptance is deemed to have occurred.
It is only after acceptance that the seller must be given the option to repair or replace.