Chancel liability - to insure or not?

agrinnall

I've read a few of the threads on the subject but I would like to get clarification on my own position.

I'm buying a house in England that was last sold on 11th October 2013 (so the day before the deadline, which is slightly annoying). There appears to be no liability registered against the property at that time.

I've paid for a Chancel search, which has provided a rather non-commital response:

"We have determined that the property is located in a historical parish or tithe district containing a record of Chacel Liability".

Two questions to start with:

1) Am I right in thinking that a liability can be registered up to the point that I buy the house, but not after that?

2) And that the period of most concern to me is between exchange and completion (before exchange I could pull out if liability was registered)?

The Search company (PinPoint) offer an Aviva insurance policy for £43 for £1 million cover. That seems high compared to some prices mentioned in other threads. My solicitor can also provide a policy but I don't know yet how much they would charge.

Two further questions then:

1) If my understanding of the questions above is correct, can a policy start from the exchange date? I saw one post that suggested it can't start until completion, but at that point it would either not be needed or couldn't be purchased anyway if liability had been registered.

2) Would having exchange and completion on the same day mitigate the risk of liability falling on me? Obviously that may lead to other issues, but I was wondering if it was a way round the issue.

pete-20-11

I thought the liability could come at any time in the future?

I presume the £43 is a one off fee for the insurance, if so, probably best to go ahead rather than risk it.

It does seem to be something that is becoming less likely, with legislation changes, but if the property is already on a chancel register, or this is the first sale since 2013, then it is worth paying the one-off cost, rather than risk say a £100,000 demand later down the line.

csgohan4

agrinnall wrote: »

I've read a few of the threads on the subject but I would like to get clarification on my own position.

I'm buying a house in England that was last sold on 11th October 2013 (so the day before the deadline, which is slightly annoying). There appears to be no liability registered against the property at that time.

I've paid for a Chancel search, which has provided a rather non-commital response:

"We have determined that the property is located in a historical parish or tithe district containing a record of Chacel Liability".

Two questions to start with:

1) Am I right in thinking that a liability can be registered up to the point that I buy the house, but not after that?

2) And that the period of most concern to me is between exchange and completion (before exchange I could pull out if liability was registered)?

The Search company (PinPoint) offer an Aviva insurance policy for £43 for £1 million cover. That seems high compared to some prices mentioned in other threads. My solicitor can also provide a policy but I don't know yet how much they would charge.

Two further questions then:

1) If my understanding of the questions above is correct, can a policy start from the exchange date? I saw one post that suggested it can't start until completion, but at that point it would either not be needed or couldn't be purchased anyway if liability had been registered.

2) Would having exchange and completion on the same day mitigate the risk of liability falling on me? Obviously that may lead to other issues, but I was wondering if it was a way round the issue.

Well done for not skimping on searches, I am doing that as well after reading of the court case years ago which a couple lost tens of thousands for repairing a local church leacher.

libf

Cheaper to pay for the liability insurance without having done the search at all, generally. I think I'm paying about £7 for mine...

Jon_B_2

My chancel liability insurance was £5. Bit of a no brainer.

agrinnall

I should really have done this research before paying for the search, as the general consensus seems to be that it's sensible to have the insurance, and if you're having it anyway there's no point in having the search done.

libf and Jon B, where did you get such cheap insurance? Was it through your solicitors or direct? Who are the providers?

HappyMJ

agrinnall wrote: »

I should really have done this research before paying for the search, as the general consensus seems to be that it's sensible to have the insurance, and if you're having it anyway there's no point in having the search done.

libf and Jon B, where did you get such cheap insurance? Was it through your solicitors or direct? Who are the providers?

I'm pretty sure the cheap insurance was without the search. It's an insurance thing. A search will rarely find what you've found. You've done the search then found a risk and now the risk of a claim is much higher so therefore the higher premium. Stupid isn't it.

agrinnall

HappyMJ wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the cheap insurance was without the search. It's an insurance thing. A search will rarely find what you've found. You've done the search then found a risk and now the risk of a claim is much higher so therefore the higher premium. Stupid isn't it.

That may well be the case, although as every property in England is within a CofE parish then it seems likely that that the vast majority of searches will find what mine has, with only a minority finding either that there is a registered liability already or that the PCC has confirmed that they will not register a liability. Stupid is right!

Richard_Webster

That may well be the case, although as every property in England is within a CofE parish then it seems likely that that the vast majority of searches will find what mine has, with only a minority finding either that there is a registered liability already or that the PCC has confirmed that they will not register a liability. Stupid is right!

No, that's not true. Ther are a lot of parishes where there could never be any chancel laibility.

Your solicitors have done the search and now you will have to pay for insurance on top. If your solicitors were switched on they would have access to an insurance that was cheaper than the cost of the basic search, therefore making the search unnecessary.

TBagpuss

agrinnall wrote: »

That may well be the case, although as every property in England is within a CofE parish then it seems likely that that the vast majority of searches will find what mine has, with only a minority finding either that there is a registered liability already or that the PCC has confirmed that they will not register a liability. Stupid is right!

No, most parishes don't have liability, it depends on what the situation was at the time of the dissolution of the monasteries back in the 16th Century - liability attached to land which had belonged to the Church and which passed to lay owners at that time.

Some individual dioceses and parishes had made decision that they will not seek to enforce liability.
Also, the level of risk depends on what the land is now used for. In the headline case, the homeowners were the only people liable, as they owned all of the affected land. In other areas, where the relevant land is now a suburb, any liability may be shared between dozens, or even hundreds of people. I know of one area near me where there is a liability, but the land is now covered in high density housing so any liability would be shared between several hundred homes.

Tyr googling the parish your new home is in, and chancel repair, which may ell you whether they have made any decisions not to register / enforce?

It's my understanding that provided they don't register anything before you complete you are in the clear, but double check with your solicitor.

libf

agrinnall wrote: »

I should really have done this research before paying for the search, as the general consensus seems to be that it's sensible to have the insurance, and if you're having it anyway there's no point in having the search done.

libf and Jon B, where did you get such cheap insurance? Was it through your solicitors or direct? Who are the providers?

The price was included in the quote from my solicitors, but that's without having done the search. If the search has been done and there is some likelihood of liability, then the price will be higher.