NHS Weekend Working and Sunday Trading?

lostinrates

elantan wrote: »

And what are the wages/conditions etc of these other professions?

Variable. The thing is other professions vary, tremendously. While some might have tremendous circumstances, some will be average, and some will have worse conditions than average. If they don't like it I suppose they could become nurses.

I have no idea what criminal solicitors start on these days, for example, but a decade ago it could be lower than a nurse. Your registration ( which i am afraid I also don't know but am lead to believe is more that £125 ) would more than likely be included in your salary though.

Edit: having googled I am not actually sure registration fee IS that much actually.

Torry_Quine

lostinrates wrote: »

Variable. The thing is other professions vary, tremendously. While some might have tremendous circumstances, some will be average, and some will have worse conditions than average. If they don't like it I suppose they could become nurses.

I have no idea what criminal solicitors start on these days, for example, but a decade ago it could be lower than a nurse. Your registration ( which i am afraid I also don't know but am lead to believe is more that £125 ) would more than likely be included in your salary though.

Edit: having googled I am not actually sure registration fee IS that much actually.

Just checked and the registration fee is £120 per year.

CLAPTON

it would seem

Adult nurse


Fully qualified nurses start on salaries of £21,692 rising to £28,180 on Band 5 of the NHS Agenda for Change Pay Rates. Salaries in London attract a high-cost area supplement.
With experience, in positions such as nurse team leader on Band 6, salaries progress to £26,041 to £34,876.
At more senior levels such as nurse advanced, modern matron and nurse consultant (Bands 7 to 8c) salaries range from £31,072 to £67,805.
Comparable rates of pay exist in the private sector.
Payments for unsocial hours are made to NHS staff. Details of pay for unsocial hours in the private sector may vary so contact employers for information.
The NHS offers a pension scheme, sickness and maternity benefits. Nurses employed outside the NHS may not have the same terms in relation to pension provision or benefits, but may be offered other incentives such as private health insurance or, occasionally, a company car for senior roles.
Shift work is carried out in hospitals, which includes regular unsocial hours. There is increasing scope for 9am to 5pm working in other locations, not only in the community and in specialist units and clinics, but also in industry and commerce.
Flexible working has become available as a means of retaining staff, but tends to vary according to whether there are nurse shortages. Currently, workforce levels are stable.
The environment and working conditions vary between hospitals and wards. You might be looking after many different patients on a ward, or one or two patients in intensive care or on a high dependency unit. Alternatively, you could work on your own in patients' homes.
Nurses often work in multidisciplinary teams.
Career breaks and retraining opportunities are often available.
Freelance work is possible through agencies or as a private nurse or, for senior nurses, as a consultant.
Opportunities exist in most major towns and cities. In rural areas, opportunities are more limited.
In the NHS, a clothing allowance/uniform is provided. This may not always be the case in the private sector.
Nursing can be physically and emotionally demanding but it can also be satisfying when you see that the care you have provided has resulted in improvement of health, recovery or reduced suffering.
Ward-based adult nurses may occasionally need to travel within a working day, for example between two hospitals or units in a trust. Progression into specialties such as district nursing or health visiting, or other community roles, often involves regular travel to visit people in their own homes.
There are opportunities to travel or work overseas.

http://www.prospects.ac.uk/adult_nurse_salary.htm

.string.

A lot of discussion here about nurses, all worth discussion of course, but I'd like to turn a bit to Consultants. My understanding of what Hunt said this morning was that the current arguments are about Consultants needing to accept a 7 day profession as do, as do, at present, other staff in the NHS, including nurses. He said there were a number of difficulties to be overcome achieving 24/7 coverage, and that the shortage of senior staff at weekends was one of them.

Personally, I think consultants (rather some consultants since there are clearly exceptions to what I am saying), see their status as a license to indulge in some very profitable moonlighting at Private Hospitals, taking time off their day job to earn it up a bit at the local Private venue. The effect of weekends might or might not change their prospects in that regard - one could argue either way - but some Consultants are milking the system and need another freebie special treatment like we patients need a hole in the head with no-one to treat us.

I should confess that I have Private health care (have had it for more than 40 years since I started working abroad) to take care of coverage not provided by the NHS, but I loathe Private Health Care. It is money-grabbing and not as reassuring as the NHS. All too common it can happen that a specialist consultant is not available at the local NHS Hospital but is available to see privately. Once or twice I have met a consultant who advised me not to go Private but to wait for the NHS treatment, but that is rare.

So the bottom line on that is that I don't think that the current argument that Hunt has with the Senior Doctors is just about them missing the odd booze up in the Pub after work. The moonlighting issue is hiding in the shadows (as indeed are others no doubt) and should be excorsised at the same time.

milliemonster

I agree, I am a nurse and discovered today that one of our new consultants (who isn't very popular with the rest of his team of consultants) was rejected for his post originally because, for every procedure they do they are paid £100 on top of their salary(nhs) however, the rest of the consultants didn't want him because he has been able to assist in clearing waiting lists and they deliberately wanted to create bottlenecks so they could steer patients towards private treatment instead as they are then paid £1000 for each procedure if they do it in a private hospital setting

It disgusts me actually, as nurses, we are paid the salary we are paid with no options to earn anything extra within the nhs whether we improve standards, hit targets etc, consultants are a law unto themselves and there are so many extra financial incentives for them, they don't always make The most ethical decisions.

I'd also like to point out whilst people were discussing nurses salaries that the majority of hospital nurses are band 5, our trust has downgraded most nursing staff above this level so there are very few band 6 or above now, leading to little opportunity for career progression anymore, even many of our specialist nurses roles are band 5 now, the only band 8's I have seen are not clinical, only managers

.string.

Thanks for the reply Millie, I would like to see an investigation into working practices in the NHS. I suspect tho it won't happen until there is an almighty fuss or scandal. There was a practice similar to what you describe in industry with "piece work" where workers were paid by the quantity of items they produced. As a young fresh apprentice I worked in a fitting shop making a part and in my newly learnt enthusiasm churned out the things I was making way over the high rate. I was told in no uncertain terms to slow down as such behaviour lowered the piece rate. The foreman took me off the job to make a sledge for him. I presume that sort of thing may still go on but I don't know. From what you say some heads need to be banged together.

One trouble is that patients are loathe to complain about doctors. In the case of consultants who will see them early, rather than later on the NHS they are a captive audience.

As you might gather I have little sympathy for consultants in their dispute with the government. Some balancing needs to be done, not least, as you point out, in the career structure.

Unfortunately in today's nasty politics anything new in the NHS is taken as an attack, not a genuine attempt to improve it.

elantan

For me its also a question of where does it end... Csw's that earn little to begin with not able to get away boost from a Sunday shift for example

remorseless

milliemonster wrote: »

I agree, I am a nurse and discovered today that one of our new consultants (who isn't very popular with the rest of his team of consultants) was rejected for his post originally because, for every procedure they do they are paid £100 on top of their salary(nhs) however, the rest of the consultants didn't want him because he has been able to assist in clearing waiting lists and they deliberately wanted to create bottlenecks so they could steer patients towards private treatment instead as they are then paid £1000 for each procedure if they do it in a private hospital setting

apologies for my ignorance on the topic in advance... why there are so many consultant?
Or is it the same as in other private corporation where permanent head count is small to look lean and then heaps of easy to chop contractor fill the floors?

Spirit_2

remorseless wrote: »

Not budgeting a hospital on a 24x7 basis seems as moronic as assuming 'strokes' or 'car accidents' will not happen on weekends!

It is not only about budget phasing.You would need an increased number of staff tocover the additional shifts -more consultants at weekends means more diagnostic staff etc. There are current shortages of Consultants in many specialties and they take years to train, there are also shortages of trained nurses, specialist technical staff such as cardiac technicians, perfusionists, ultra sonographers.
Who is funding and planning for this extra workforce? The lead time is long and overseas recruitment alone will not fill the gap.

milliemonster

remorseless wrote: »

apologies for my ignorance on the topic in advance... why there are so many consultant?
Or is it the same as in other private corporation where permanent head count is small to look lean and then heaps of easy to chop contractor fill the floors?

I'm not an expert on how senior doctors are remunerated by any means but AIUI, consultants are employed by NHS Trusts on a 'sessions per week' basis and outside of that can work for the private sector should they wish, I have no hesitation in saying that they put the hours in, but doctors do earn substantially above their contracted salaries for 'extras', signing a death certificate for instance attracts approx. £75, and junior doctors do those generally.


Consultants are permanent employees, but unfortunately, conditions being as they are in the NHS, many go abroad to work, are well renowned in their fields so are head hunted and as such can pretty much demand what they like, hospitals have difficulty attracting and keeping doctors, so we end up in a situation where many seniors pretty much do what they want and get away with it.